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4thTimeLucky · 05-30-2003, 08:46 AM

To gonadman and reconmike....

Your are right to point out that I missed a step in the logic there. The missing step is that it is not enough to simply "believe" they still had WMD. The US and the UK invest hundreds of millions in their intelligence gathering operations and, I am sure, are pretty much aware of what goes on and went on in Iraq (even down to when and in which restaurant Hussein was eating his dinner, a piece of information known only by his inner circle.)

So IF Iraq destroyed its WMDs pre-1441 THEN either:
1) The US and UK intelligence gathering service was so flawed that they managed to interpret no WMDs as "a WMD capability that is a threat to the West and can be launched within 48 hours" (which was their reason for going to war).
....or....
2) The US and UK intelligence service is good at its job and was aware of the absence of WMDs.

The conclusions of which are:
1) The US and UK intelligence service is really quite pathetic and our two countries are guilty of gross negligence.
2) The US and UK intelligence service is quite good, the politicians lied (and are still lying), and the war was utterly illegal.

Which is it to be: gross negligence or illegal invasion?

Your second point was about Hussein showing all the evidence for destroyed weapons. The answer is that Hussein is a proud man, who likes to run rings around the West. He wasn't going to roll over and give us what we wanted on a plate. Does that mean we have the right to invade and kill thousands of civilans? No. It gives us the right to take action, certainly. But we had other responses open to us and it was these that the rest of the world was trying to get us to adopt.

guthmund

Being a "bad guy" is not an acceptable excuse for state intervention in domestic law and it sure as hell isn't in international law.
Al Qaida thought that Bush was a "bad man" and did something about it. Was that an acceptable justification for their actions? Not in the slightest, and neither would it have been for the US.

05-30-2003, 08:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	To gonadman and reconmike.... Your are right to point out that I missed a step in the logic there. The missing step is that it is not enough to simply "believe" they still had WMD. The US and the UK invest hundreds of millions in their intelligence gathering operations and, I am sure, are pretty much aware of what goes on and went on in Iraq (even down to when and in which restaurant Hussein was eating his dinner, a piece of information known only by his inner circle.) So IF Iraq destroyed its WMDs pre-1441 THEN either: 1) The US and UK intelligence gathering service was so flawed that they managed to interpret no WMDs as "a WMD capability that is a threat to the West and can be launched within 48 hours" (which was their reason for going to war). ....or.... 2) The US and UK intelligence service is good at its job and was aware of the absence of WMDs. The conclusions of which are: 1) The US and UK intelligence service is really quite pathetic and our two countries are guilty of gross negligence. 2) The US and UK intelligence service is quite good, the politicians lied (and are still lying), and the war was utterly illegal. Which is it to be: gross negligence or illegal invasion? Your second point was about Hussein showing all the evidence for destroyed weapons. The answer is that Hussein is a proud man, who likes to run rings around the West. He wasn't going to roll over and give us what we wanted on a plate. Does that mean we have the right to invade and kill thousands of civilans? No. It gives us the right to take action, certainly. But we had other responses open to us and it was these that the rest of the world was trying to get us to adopt. guthmund Being a "bad guy" is not an acceptable excuse for state intervention in domestic law and it sure as hell isn't in international law. Al Qaida thought that Bush was a "bad man" and did something about it. Was that an acceptable justification for their actions? Not in the slightest, and neither would it have been for the US. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless! Last edited by 4thTimeLucky; 05-30-2003 at 08:51 AM..