View Single Post
Old 02-28-2007, 09:42 AM   #30 (permalink)
roachboy
 
roachboy's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
this is getting curiouser and curiouser.

with respect to the op: while i doubt that anything like a definitive claim could possible be made about whether this tomb is or is not that of "the" jesus--but i confess that i really quite hope that it IS the tomb of The Man, his wife and child--not least because that would destabilize the relations between the main gospels and some of their gnostic contemporaries. i am pretty sympathetic to gnosticism (well, some kinds of it) and thought that almost every reason augustine outlined to oppose gnosticism--particularly the problems that system posed for social regulation--were in a way virtues. the wrong variant of christianity won with the conversion of constantine.

other point:

jorgelito's post is interesting, i think.

first in the choice of the term "outing" with reference to his christianity--why that term? i find it more than passing strange.

in terms of the "anti-christian" stuff: i dont see it that way--i see a great diversity of positions, some of which are amenable to active questioning of believers themselves (as in why do you believe this...) and many others that are not.

one fairly obvious element that cuts across this (but even here, there is little consistency) is that most have had at least some experience of christianity and have broekn with it--and this for a variety of reasons. it seems to me that this break is not easy, particularly if in breaking with christianity you are breaking with signficant elements of your own frame of reference when you were younger. in these situations--and there are alot of them, if you read the various debates about atheism etc, of late--there is obviously a ton of affect from a variety of sources that gets displaced onto christianity---does this mean that the attitudes expressed are "anti-christian"?

i dont understand what "anti-christian" actually means.
would any expression of non-belief be anti-christian?
where does anti-christian stop and start?

there is a tendency within some christian communities to see in all expressions of beliefs that are not consistent with their own evidence of "anti-christian" attitudes--all of it gets associated with satan, yes?
and from that association, what alternatives are possible?
being-in-the-world is cast as warfare between two parties and everyone is of one party or the other.
this is consistent, cutting across all denominations--what varies is the centrality of this position in a larger worldview--not all denominations make this notion of spiritual warfare the absolute center of their views--but some do--fundamentalist protestants in the us are particularly committed to it, it seems (from my experience as a kid with some of these groups, it IS central)

it seems to me that many christian denominations operate from an assumption of hegemony and either will not or cannot adjust to being in a pluralist context--because within such a context, this notion of spritual warfare pitting the "good" (christians) against "evil" (everyone else) is wholly dysfunctional.

but hey, that's just my opinion, man.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite
roachboy is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360