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Originally Posted by asaris
Well, take the Argument from Design. If we found a stopwatch on the beach, we'd presume someone put it there. It exhibits an orderly design we generally don't think happens by accident. But the universe, like a stopwatch, exhibits an orderly design. Therefore, someone must have put it there. Now, you might not think it's a good argument. But it's an argument, and not nonsensical. And you also have the teleological argument, the ontological argument, the argument from evil, the fine tuning argument, and probably others. These all indicate that there are in fact reasons to believe, even if you don't think they are particularly good reasons.
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I see that as the ultimate in nonsensical assertions.
Your argument assumes that the universe is perfectly designed. That is a flawed assumption. Let's look at it from a meteorological perspective. Sure, the rain brings water to places not near bodies of water, but what about floods? Other times it doesn't rain for years and drought follows. How is this orderly? As someone fascinated by biology, I can tell you that nature is ruthless. To live, each life form has to kill other life forms around it. Millions of human babies are born with physical or mental disabilities, or are stillborn and die soon after being born. Orderly, indeed.
I would argue that the evidence that you would present isn't evidence for god, but for natural selection. Why is our planet a perfect distance from the sun for life? You're thinking of it the wrong way. Life on Earth developed and the life forms able to survive in our atmosphere survived. All the life forms that didn't survive died off because they were not suited for this world.
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Originally Posted by asaris
I also think you dismiss too quickly the claim that "Since lots of things cause injustice, Christianity can't be that bad." The conclusion that this leads me to is that injustice, strife, etc. must be a result of us, not our ideologies. If all the contemporary ideologies were eliminated, and people just stuck to science, do you think injustice would end? If not, then how can you claim that injustice is a result of these things? And this argument ignores all the good that Christianity has brought about. If it has contributed to the oppression of women and colonialism, it is also responsible for the rise of the modern liberal state and the end of slavery (not to mention the role it has played in the fight against racism and sexism). If you're going to criticize an ideology for its effects, it's not fair to only consider the bad effects and ignore the good.
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I never claimed that injustice was a result of theism. This is the kind of strawman that gets us off track. I'm saying that god isn't real.