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Originally Posted by willravel
...but our understanding through science is ever evolving and expanding. The same cannot be said of the Bible, Qu'ran, Torah, etc. which all remain stagnant. That's kinda what I've been getting at. It's not fair to assume that the Bible will give us some indication of quantum theory because it's 1500 years old. Using the Bible to address things like the origin of life or the origin of the universe isn't fair to the Bible, which is a book of philosophy. As a philosophy, theism can work just fine. If you want to give meaning to your existence through the belief in a god, go for it. It's not necessarily reasonable to believe in something that basically isn't there, but there isn't harm allowing yourself to take some better understanding of yourself or your world from it. When integrating it into science, everything falls apart. That's where the rise in atheism is coming from. The separation of science and faith is happening the same way that the separation of church and state happened (and continues to happen).
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They are evolving. Interpretation of religious texts have been known to change with the times and a particular theist may or may not derive all of their beliefs from the bible.
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Maybe I should be having this debate with a theist.
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Maybe, though i think we've frightened all but the most daring of them off.
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No, religion is trying to explain the world around us, not just our philosophy. Science is for explaining how the world works on a fundamental level, not religion. That was the point I was making. When I became a humanist, I realized that not all the decisions I made could be made with science. Altruism, for example, is difficult to explain away by Darwinian theory. It's one of the things I take on faith (gasp!). The marked difference between my believing in altruism and a theist's belief in god is that my belief is in something that never claims to be tangible. There is no ancient altruism scripture that explains how we received altruism from a flying white guy that I follow. It's a philosophical decision that has no roots in the belief in unprovable creatures. When a theist is altruistic, it is because they need to believe that the altruism was given to us by a higher, supernatural being. I see a marked difference between the two.
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I think that science is for explaining the things it can explain, which are less in number than the things that could theoretically be explained. Any other explanations are great, provided they don't contradict the things that science can tell us.
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I never said you need to use my definitions. Use any reasonable definitions. I suggested Webster, in order to reference one of Webster's dictionaries, but use whatever dictionary you want, so long as it isn't Jesus' Dictionary for Atheism Arguments.
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I used dictionary.com.
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Are you saying "it's one of many unreasonable things, so it's okay"? That's hardly reasonable.
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I'm saying that the idea that religion isn't okay because some religious people use it to justify bad things is like saying that economic theory isn't okay because some people use it to justify bad things. People who want to do bad things will find a way to justify the doing of bad things. Charismatic people are the mcguyvers of drivel.
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My buddies who were all Political Science majors in school will be crushed.
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I know, it was a dumb thing to say. I was totally thinking james carville when i wrote it, and then when i was walking to class after i posted it i realized that james carville is, in fact, a douchebag and not a political analyst.
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Unless you're god, you can only speak for yourself when you declare what I say as being relevant or not.
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I was speaking for me. I personally don't think you're qualified to speak authoritatively about all religion.
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One step at a time. First, end violence, then move on.
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Amen to that. You may find that the differences between the more progressive/moderate religious folk and you are superficial.
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Originally Posted by spectators
Ooooh la la
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I hope that the exchange between mr. ravel and i has been entertaining. I know feel personally entertained.