Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
It's not a case at all. Theism doesn't necessarily rely on the idea that god created the universe, or that god evolved within the universe. The fact that something cannot exist under our current understanding of the universe isn't good evidence either; any reasonable person will tell you that our understanding of the universe is relatively limited.
|
...but our understanding through science is ever evolving and expanding. The same cannot be said of the Bible, Qu'ran, Torah, etc. which all remain stagnant. That's kinda what I've been getting at. It's not fair to assume that the Bible will give us some indication of quantum theory because it's 1500 years old. Using the Bible to address things like the origin of life or the origin of the universe isn't fair to the Bible, which is a book of philosophy. As a philosophy, theism can work just fine. If you want to give meaning to your existence through the belief in a god, go for it. It's not necessarily reasonable to believe in something that basically isn't there, but there isn't harm allowing yourself to take some better understanding of yourself or your world from it. When integrating it into science, everything falls apart. That's where the rise in atheism is coming from. The separation of science and faith is happening the same way that the separation of church and state happened (and continues to happen).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
Well, i don't think that it's that simple for people who put a lot of thought into their faith. Why would the logical step be to dismiss?
|
Maybe I should be having this debate with a theist.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
Then why did you even bring it up? You said that science can explain everything that religion tries to. And i pointed out that you were wrong; your response seems to indicated that you knew you were wrong before you even mentioned it.
|
No, religion is trying to explain the world around us, not just our philosophy. Science is for explaining how the world works on a fundamental level, not religion. That was the point I was making. When I became a humanist, I realized that not all the decisions I made could be made with science. Altruism, for example, is difficult to explain away by Darwinian theory. It's one of the things I take on faith (gasp!). The marked difference between my believing in altruism and a theist's belief in god is that my belief is in something that never claims to be tangible. There is no ancient altruism scripture that explains how we received altruism from a flying white guy that I follow. It's a philosophical decision that has no roots in the belief in unprovable creatures. When a theist is altruistic, it is because they need to believe that the altruism was given to us by a higher, supernatural being. I see a marked difference between the two.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
I don't understand. I explained how it was reasonable based on definitions that i looked up. You said that i needed to use your definitions. I said that that was an irrational expectation because you aren't an objective player in this. Now you want me to use the dictionary. You didn't succeed in not wasting my time.
|
I never said you need to use my definitions. Use any reasonable definitions. I suggested Webster, in order to reference one of Webster's dictionaries, but use whatever dictionary you want, so long as it isn't Jesus' Dictionary for Atheism Arguments.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
As if religion is the only thing that does this. For a psych major, you certainly seem to be unaware of how fucked up humans can be; they don't necessarily need religion to cause injustice or pain or death.
|
Are you saying "it's one of many unreasonable things, so it's okay"? That's hardly reasonable.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
Political analysts aren't scientists, why would their position be evidence of anything?
|
My buddies who were all Political Science majors in school will be crushed.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
I'm sorry dude, but you don't have anything relevant or compelling to say about "all religion".
|
Unless you're god, you can only speak for yourself when you declare what I say as being relevant or not.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by filtherton
Do you constantly point out to them how unreasonable they are?
|
One step at a time. First, end violence, then move on.