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Originally Posted by willravel
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I don't want to know the theory behind it. I want to know how you can prove it.
What is the process and who does the certifying? Surely there should be some method. You can generalize it for me if you want. Certainly, if you're as educated as you claim to be you should be able to dumb it down for us physical science folk.
It's one thing to be able to theoretically prove something, actually proving it is something else entirely. Theoretically it's possible to make a heat engine with 99.999999% efficiency. As far as i know, no heat engine exists that comes close to that. For me to claim that the fact that it is possible means it is doable doesn't jibe with reality.
But okay, assuming that there is some way to prove it[not that i think that there is], to the extent that you can prove anything, have you gone ahead and proved that eveyone whom you think loves you actually loves you? Do you have any sort of certification you can provide if anyone in your family wants to be sure that you love them? If not, how can you justify your faith in their love, if indeed, you do have faith in their love?
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They are making claims without proof, read above for references by doctors and researchers proving proof for my claim. There are not doctors proving information from experiments proving the existence of god.
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You are also making claims without proof. Telling me to read a psych textbook doesn't amount to a very compelling argument.
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I can make a case that god doesn't exist based on information about how life evolves. If god created the universe, it's not possible that he evolved in the universe, and since all life develops through the process of evolution, god cannot exist under our current understanding of the universe. It's not an amazingly strong case, but surely it's much, much stronger than a complete lack of evidence.
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It's not a case at all. Theism doesn't necessarily rely on the idea that god created the universe, or that god evolved within the universe. The fact that something cannot exist under our current understanding of the universe isn't good evidence either; any reasonable person will tell you that our understanding of the universe is relatively limited.
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I have to ask: when faced with unbelievable stories with no evidence, why would one simply make the determination to believe that it is true and correct? What is that extra step that overrides the logical step to dismiss the stories as simply myth?
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Well, i don't think that it's that simple for people who put a lot of thought into their faith. Why would the logical step be to dismiss?
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I'll clarify. Do you think that Zeus', the king of the gods', half son, who had supernatural strength, existed?
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I don't know, it doesn't really matter to me.
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Science isn't here to give meaning to existence. That's why we have philosophy. What happens to us after we die? We decompose.
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Then why did you even bring it up? You said that science can explain everything that religion tries to. And i pointed out that you were wrong; your response seems to indicated that you knew you were wrong before you even mentioned it.
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That's not what I said at all. I didn't want you to waste your time. By all means, consult Webster.
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I don't understand. I explained how it was reasonable based on definitions that i looked up. You said that i needed to use your definitions. I said that that was an irrational expectation because you aren't an objective player in this. Now you want me to use the dictionary. You didn't succeed in not wasting my time.
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God has no evidence, therefore believing in his existence as truth is unreasonable.
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You keep saying this, but i do not think that word means what you think it means.
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Forget the superstition thing then. The bottom line is religion would be fine if it didn't cause injustice, or people to be hurt or killed.
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As if religion is the only thing that does this. For a psych major, you certainly seem to be unaware of how fucked up humans can be; they don't necessarily need religion to cause injustice or pain or death.
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Any political analyst can tell you that the Dems gained ground because of the Iraqi war, not stem cell research.
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Political analysts aren't scientists, why would their position be evidence of anything?
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You're speaking in degrees, though. Sure things are relatively good, but it still sucks bad. I'm asking society to move faster.
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By pretending to be superior to those whose opinions you want to change? Good luck with that.
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Strawman. All religion is encompassed in my argument. Islam is right there next to Christianity. The funny thing is, while Islamic extremists are obviously more violent than their Christian counterparts, I've not heard anything about Islam impeding scientific advancements.
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I'm sorry dude, but you don't have anything relevant or compelling to say about "all religion".
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Speaking for a moment as to what I'm doing about Saudi Arabia, I'm friends with several very influential imams (I am very good friends with one of their sons, who is my age and shares my affinity for driving fast cars) in Arizona who often travel back to Iran in order to preach and teach and learn. I've had several serious discussions with them about how to bring the centrists and liberals of Islam into the ME, in order to counter the dogmatic and violent situation there now. They agree that bringing a more international view of Islam into the ME could act to calm down the extremists who have no other source of true Islam, which is very much peaceful. Bringing them the Islam I'm familiar with would be like bringing Vatican 2 policy to the Spanish Inquisition. It could really serve to help.
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Do you constantly point out to them how unreasonable they are?