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Originally Posted by filtherton
Yes, i'm well aware of your assertions that they can prove it. I just want you to explain specifically how you, or any individual really, could use the technology you're describing to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that person A loves person B. I know it can't be that difficult to understand, because you're not stupid. I think the problem here is that you can't explain it, and you're inability to do so undermines your entire position.
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I don't have 6 months to explain this, so I'll ask that you go out and buy
The Psychology of Love by Robert J. Sternberg and Michael L. Barnes or
We: Understanding the Psychology of Romantic Love by Robert A. Johnson to explain the psychological side. Her is a 20 year old article written by famed Dr. Brian G. Gilmartin entitled:
The Biochemistry of Falling in Love. It's breif, but very well written and explains the broad strokes.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
No, they are not as wrong as you. They are making claims that can't be disproven, while you are making claims about things that aren't true (see the love example).
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They are making claims without proof, read above for references by doctors and researchers proving proof for my claim. There are not doctors proving information from experiments proving the existence of god.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
I don't know, maybe we can use a combination of biochemistry and psychology to prove that the sun isn't sentient. Or we could recognize that we understand whole lot of stuff about how the sun works and what it is made of. With that in mind, there doesn't appear to be any sentience, as far as we define it. What we don't understand at all are many of the things that religion attempts to explain.
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I can make a case that god doesn't exist based on information about how life evolves. If god created the universe, it's not possible that he evolved in the universe, and since all life develops through the process of evolution, god cannot exist under our current understanding of the universe. It's not an amazingly strong case, but surely it's much, much stronger than a complete lack of evidence.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
The evidence of [Archimedes'] existence is as credible as the evidence that [Jesus] existed. [Certainly], the fact that the bible makes fantastic claims about [Jesus] makes the information a tad bit unbelievable, i won't claim that it doesn't.
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I have to ask: when faced with unbelievable stories with no evidence, why would one simply make the determination to believe that it is true and correct? What is that extra step that overrides the logical step to dismiss the stories as simply myth?
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Originally Posted by filtherton
I don't know enough about that to claim either way.
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I'll clarify. Do you think that Zeus', the king of the gods', half son, who had supernatural strength, existed?
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Originally Posted by filtherton
If you will note the lack of information offered by science concerning why we exist or what happens to us after we die. Really, for someone who claims a solid knowledge of science and religion you sure seem hard pressed to compare and contrast the two beyond one-dimensional posturing.
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Science isn't here to give meaning to existence. That's why we have philosophy. What happens to us after we die? We decompose.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
So i can't use the definition in the dictionary? Awww shucks! That's an novel way to go about trying to prove you're right. Just redefine words so that they mean only what you want them to mean, and not what they actually mean.
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That's not what I said at all. I didn't want you to waste your time. By all means, consult Webster.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
We can all agree that god has no evidence. Beyond that, i'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
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God has no evidence, therefore believing in his existence as truth is unreasonable.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
I think i can see where you're going to go with this. If you really want to go in that direction you should ask yourself "Am i really giving this as much thought as i should?"
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Forget the superstition thing then. The bottom line is religion would be fine if it didn't cause injustice, or people to be hurt or killed.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
You're right. Obviously the fact that these folks got dickslapped in the last national election is irrelevant.
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Any political analyst can tell you that the Dems gained ground because of the Iraqi war, not stem cell research.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
That sucks about your grandfather, but it still doesn't change the fact that science and religion in America are on the best terms that they have been on in a long time, probably ever.
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You're speaking in degrees, though. Sure things are
relatively good, but it still sucks bad. I'm asking society to move faster.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
So what? Tell you what, if you want to go somewhere where you can really make a difference, why not hop a plane over to saudi arabia fight the good fight over there? If you happen to make it back, let me know how you feel about the oppressiveness of christianity in america.
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Strawman. All religion is encompassed in my argument. Islam is right there next to Christianity. The funny thing is, while Islamic extremists are obviously more violent than their Christian counterparts, I've not heard anything about Islam impeding scientific advancements.
Speaking for a moment as to what I'm doing about Saudi Arabia, I'm friends with several very influential imams (I am very good friends with one of their sons, who is my age and shares my affinity for driving fast cars) in Arizona who often travel back to Iran in order to preach and teach and learn. I've had several serious discussions with them about how to bring the centrists and liberals of Islam into the ME, in order to counter the dogmatic and violent situation there now. They agree that bringing a more international view of Islam into the ME could act to calm down the extremists who have no other source of true Islam, which is very much peaceful. Bringing them the Islam I'm familiar with would be like bringing Vatican 2 policy to the Spanish Inquisition. It could really serve to help.