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Originally Posted by filtherton
I'm not denying that it can be measured; i've never denied that it can be measured. I just want you to explain how it can be measured in a way so as to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you love a specific person.
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A combination of biochemistry and psychology can prove it.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
You can only claim that there is no evidence to support their belief. That they are wrong isn't something you could ever know.
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They are as wrong as anyone can be.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
But we know that the sun isn't sentient. We don't know where the universe came from. Many theists have taken into account how far our understanding of the world has come.
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Whoa whoa whoa, who says the sun isn't sentient? Just because no evidence exists to say the sun isn't sentient doesn't make it so, right? You've fallen into my devious trap. *rubs hands maniacally*
A great deal of evidence exists to support theories of the beginning of the universe, such as the big bang. Just because it cannot be proven does not put it in the same category as god. A great deal of evidence supports big bang, no evidence exists to support god.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
The bible is a historical document. At least some the things contained within it are considered to accurately reflect history. Some of it seems pretty unlikely. There is certainly as much proof concerning the events of the bible as there is proof of the existence of Archimedes.
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Archimedes existed. He didn't fly, he didn't turn water into wine, and he didn't come back from the dead. He was a scientist that is credited with various ideas in physics and engineering. Jesus Christ may have existed, but the idea that he was the son of god is baseless. It's as likely as Hercules being the son of Zeus or what have you. Do you think that Hercules existed?
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Originally Posted by filtherton
The bold part is just plain not true. It won't ever be true.
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K, so show me.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
I'm not going to use your ultra-specific definition of reason, okay. I will stick with the ones in the dictionary. Do I really have to link dictionary.com? Is this really going to turn into that kind of discussion?
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Reason is reason. Faith is faith. Never the twain shall meet. I already included the definitions of both words in one of my posts.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
You can be a theist and not have your theism contradict reality. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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Theism is the belief in a supreme being or beings, so yes they can. It's not reasonable to believe in something that has no evidence. God has no evidence.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
It might be considered reasonable behavior according to the dictionary's definition of reason, though probably not according to your definition. Personally, i would find it rather quirky, but probably harmless.
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What if the superstition kept sick people from getting better?
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Originally Posted by filtherton
C'mon, if you're going to claim that most church bodies oppose embryonic stem cell research you should at least provide some sort of data to back it up.
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How about the last 4 years of news? This was a huge thing, epically around the time that Bush caved (when he lost a great deal of support from the religious right). How about
the US Catholic Bishops, the
Pope,
LCMS, the
NAE, the
Eastern Orthodox Church, and many, many others.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
Science and religion in America are on the best terms that they have been on in a long time, probably ever. The catholic church is even warming up to evolution. Did you know that february 8th was evolution sunday, where almost six hundred churches in the u.s. emphasized the compatibility of their faith and darwinism? Remember when creationism didn't have to clothe itself in pseudoscience to have long odds to be taught in a public school? Remember when it was illegal to get a blowjob? Man, that sucked. Remember when it was illegal to get a safe abortion? Man, that sucked, though you no doubt disagree since you and the conservative christians agree on the subject of abortion. Remember when praying in school was something the christians did over the loudspeaker?
Your sense of urgency about the conflict between religion and secularism is at least 10 years too late.
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Things aren't fixed yet. Slavery is over, but a lot of black people are still treated like shit by bigots. Sorry if I don't jump up and down with glee at the slow progress that still is causing horrible problems. Having lost my grandfather to Alzheimer's, it's abundantly clear that something like stem cell research is detrimental.
Science and religion in America are lagging behind Europe, Canada, and many other places in the world.