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Originally Posted by willravel
Oops, I meant to write ad hominem (attack the person) instead of strawman (misrepresent the opposing side). My mistake.
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I expect a thicker skin from someone who has no problem denying the intelligence of large groups of people because you disagree with their perspective.
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There are two kinds of faith:
1) faith in fiction
2) faith in reason
Theists always have 1 and sometimes have 2, but atheists have only 2 and never have 1.
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That's one way to look at it. How is one way better than another and why must they conflict? Do you think it reasonable to believe that limitations to science exist? What should be done in situations where reason has no authority?
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Not just fundys, everyone. I've been in LCMS to ELCA churches. I've been from uber conservative to uber liberal. The sweeping statement was simply that you all believe in god. That's all the argument I need, and I doubt that you can argue that I'm wrong on that point.
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Like i said above when you busted out your pot/kettle picture, i'm not a theist, so you can drop the "you all".
I don't think that ELCA or LCMS are a particularly good example of the the uber conservative to uber liberal continuum. If the only generalization you make is that all theists believe in deities than that's fine, that's not a generalization. The places where i have a problem are when you make claims about the abilities of different theistic belief systems to absorb scientific information.
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Scientific reasoning is the only reasoning. It's not superior or inferior to anything because it's in a category all it's own. Faith isn't a type of reasoning. I don't need a study to figure that out. It's common sense. As so many theists and atheists have said before, you cannot apply faith to reason.
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Do you not see the inherent contradiction in claiming that scientific reasoning is the only reasoning in the same paragraph that you claim that you don't need to study something because you have common sense? If this were a few centuries ago i could see you claiming that rats come from oilly rags. For as much as you herald scientific reasoning, you certainly seem prone to avoiding it.
You don't need to necessarily apply faith to reason, but it helps if you want funding. You can apply reason to faith. Neither necessitates the other and there are situations where one is better than the other.
For instance, can you prove that you love your family? How? You could claim that your actions are those of a person in love, but maybe you're just a latent sociopath.
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It's not reasonable to believe in the supernatural.
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Only an arrogant person would attempt to define reason for all of humanity.
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Faith is a belief that's not based in proof. Reason is conclusions based on proof. How do you see these as not being fundamentally opposed?
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They are what they are. They are methods, the only opposition to be found between them is how they are used. They are no more contradictory than a stapler and a hammer.