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Originally Posted by filtherton
I hope you can acknowledge that my weak straw man was a response to your weak straw man.
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Oops, I meant to write ad hominem (attack the person) instead of strawman (misrepresent the opposing side). My mistake.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
The only reason i mentioned it was because you seem to lack the will to differentiate between different types of faith. You seem to think that all theists think the same exact things in the exact same ways. This is plainly wrong, and the fact that you claim a certain amount of exposure to theism and still seem to implicitly insist through your assertions that there is only one kind of faith doesn't make sense.
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There are two kinds of faith:
1) faith in fiction
2) faith in reason
Theists always have 1 and sometimes have 2, but atheists have only 2 and never have 1.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
Also, the idea that exposure to a lot of fundamentalist churches is a sufficient basis on which to make sweeping claims about all of christianity is as valid as the idea that eating at a lot of different mcdonald's is a sufficient basis on which to make sweeping claims about how food is prepared.
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Not just fundys, everyone. I've been in LCMS to ELCA churches. I've been from uber conservative to uber liberal. The sweeping statement was simply that you all believe in god. That's all the argument I need, and I doubt that you can argue that I'm wrong on that point.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
It must? Why? How can you make claims like that and pretend to hold the scientific method in high esteem? How many studies have you read on this particular subject and what were their flaws? I have a hard time understanding how you can cop this attitude whereby scientific reasoning is superior to every other form of reasoning whilst making all types of assertions that are very obviously not based on any sort of science whatsoever.
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Scientific reasoning is the only reasoning. It's not superior or inferior to anything because it's in a category all it's own. Faith isn't a type of reasoning. I don't need a study to figure that out. It's common sense. As so many theists and atheists have said before, you cannot apply faith to reason.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
How are faith and reason opposing systems? Are algebra and geometry opposing systems? Physics and supply side economics? Please explain the means by which you came to that conclusion. As far as i can tell, being based on different assumptions isn't the same thing as being in direct opposition.
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It's not reasonable to believe in the supernatural.
Faith is a belief that's not based in proof. Reason is conclusions based on proof. How do you see these as not being fundamentally opposed?
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Originally Posted by abaya
No, I disagree. I spent my undergraduate career at a thoroughly evangelical university and the entire science faculty were evolutionist Christians. Not to mention they were damn good at what they did... be it physics, chemistry, or otherwise. Their faith and reason went hand-in-hand, and they saw no reason to divide the two in their own minds.
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All the science they learn is contradicted by bible knowledge. Sure, maybe they pick and choose what to believe in the bible, but that makes them agnostic. Evolutionist Christians, for example, must be agnostic. Either you belive as the bible says that god created humans in their current form or you believe that we evolved from more simple creatures through random mutation and natural selection. Believing both doesn't make sense, or is in conflict. The same argument can be made by physicists who believe that the universe came from a big bang as opposed to being blinked into existence by a supernatural power. Either they don't believe what they are teaching is correct, or they do and don't believe the bible.
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Originally Posted by abaya
Let me just say that after I graduated and went on to a secular public university to pursue my PhD, I never found any faculty or staff that I enjoyed working with more than I did with those undergraduate professors. They knew their shit and they were damn fine people, regardless of their beliefs. Or maybe because of them. Who am I to say?
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I would say that anyone who is good at their job is to be commended, especially those who are working to expand human understanding. I would also say that they are fantastic scientists in spite of their faith, not because of it.