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Originally Posted by politicophile
It's hard to accept because you have offered no proof that there is any world beyond the physical. Your justification for evil is based on a number of wildly speculative claims, any one of which might be false. Among them: the existence of God, the existence of an afterlife, the existence of a God who uses performance in the physical world to determine one's place in the afterlife, the existence of free will...
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You parsed my statement a little too closely. You dropped the conditional phrase that was directed at non-believers, which was:
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
And for non-believers, by doing good, even a bodily existence can be rewarding. It is basically understood that people do not like to suffer, so if you help others by alleviating their suffering, you might lessen your own suffering. And I'm sure you've heard the question: how can we know what is good if we cannot know what is evil?
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Since most non-believers do not have faith in a god or an afterlife, many have no stock in life after death. But this is not to say that non-believers do not understand basic ideas such as suffering and non-suffering, and good and evil. I for one do not believe in God, but I do understand that there is a system of truth that describes why we suffer and that there are possibly answers that will alleviate if not end our suffering. You speak of proof? I can see proof in my actions and through my own self-awareness. Is empirical truth good enough for you? Claims are only speculative until you can prove them true through your own observations. But we must work hard to do this.
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Originally Posted by politicophile
HOW, if you would be so kind as to explain, do you know the will of God? And just how long did it take an omniscient God to realize that he couldn't prevent evil? I have to tell you that, on a general basis, I get very nervous when people start sentences with "God wants" and "God doesn't want". When a human being is permitted to speak for God, their power to justify virtually any imaginable action becomes as limitless as the faith of their underlings.
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I was merely speaking lightly about God and the Medieval mind. For those who believe in God, they perhaps know the will of God through the Bible. Afterall, didn't God tell the prophets his will? And who said humans who speak for God use their power to justify virtually anything? I know that Christian ethics aren't perfect, but what exactly are we talking about here?
Oh, and for the record, God
can prevent evil. Remember the story of Noah's ark? That was his old way of dealing with things. But he promised Noah he'd never do it again. Enter free will. (Bear in mind that I'm speaking from a theological standpoint here and that I do not necessarily believe this.)
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Originally Posted by politicophile
My point is not that God causes evils to occur: it's that God does not exist (or if he does, he's quite evil) because God would not permit evil to happen.
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How would God enforce goodness (i.e. prevent evil)? Through pain, death, mind control? Is being "good" in fear of punishment a true way of being good? If you cannot
choose the good, are you truly being good? If you do not refrain from evil actions by your own free will, are you truly free of evil?