now here's the thing, I'm not forgetting about the black out portion. Neither you nor I have any idea what happened during it. how could either of us draw any conclusions about it other than from supposition?
But humor this: what if you don't really know the REAL "you."
How are any of us, including you, to know whether the real you is the socially inhibited you, who believed that sex before marriage (or maybe love--no assumptions here) was wrong
OR
the real you is the socially unhibited persona who was freely engaging in something that was pleasurable?
it was pleasurable by your own measure, on a physical level, until the values you had intentionally plumbed right out of your head the night before came rushing back.
Both could be the real you, for example, maybe the blacked out you is the preferrable you. the one you used to unleash with alcohol when you knew you were prone to do crazy things. maybe what I've offered will give you an angle by which to own your past...in a way that doesn't filter it through guilt of doing that which you regretted.
Perhaps, abaya, you wanted to experience sex and your last concious decision was to chose to do it in the only way your body and conscious would allow you to enjoy it--surrealisticly.
@knifemissle,
honestly, a lot of it comes from responses like yourswhen you see my name and jump in opposition to whatever I post...whereever I post, it's tiresome
it is neither mine nor abaya's thread or board, just adults having conversations and allowing them to drift where they might...but it's evidently comforting to some members to center around this portion of the discussion between abaya and myself. anyone was free to ignore my posts and continue with the OP, but this seems more interesting to the participants...who am I to refute the direction this organic development took.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gilda
I interpreted this:
"he had the forethought to put on a condom several times (so he says), and he remembers that we had "great sex"... and we ended up in the shower, conveniently (especially in terms of evidence)."
as meaning his account of what happened included multiple acts, the last of which occurred in the shower. I'm sure abaya will correct me if I've read that wrong.
Nope. I was calling him a jerk, not you.
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Gilda, I agree with you that abaya relates various parts of multiple acts of sex. But she gives the caveat that he is extremely drunk, as well (to the point of missing his flight) so his recollection is no more noteworthy than hers...and here we have his words filtered through hers. What we do know, is that she was deriving physical pleasure from the only sex act she remembers. Is it illogical to suspect that she was deriving pleasure from the earlier acts, too?
It's an interesting proposition to hold that one person is a jerk for acting a certain way and not have the same opinion of a person who can try and understand the concsiousness of the jerk but not act like that.
what makes a jerk? someone who thinks like one? or someone who acts like one?
and is there really a split between what one thinks and how one acts in terms of who that person actually is? which one takes precedence?
the question of intent becomes salient in that we have no idea what either of them were thinking when they met. perhaps he had no intention of having sex with abaya. maybe that came much later in the interaction, after the exterior signs of intoxication had long worn off, and they were discussing each other's life...each other's goals and wishes and other things. perhaps he felt a genuine connnection with her, or her with him. maybe they fell into love with one another for a fleeting moment in time, certainly not the type that many of us here are knowledgable about--what with our lumped up notions of commodification of love entangled with sex and how two people show, in western capitalism, that they love one another. perhaps they enjoyed the *now* that so many meditators attempt to seek...to be unfettered by the social.
the incident may be the least of the concerns, but the baggage that comes with it, that is created by our environment, that appears to have caused abaya more "harm" than the act of sexual intercourse itself.