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smooth · 02-12-2007, 11:24 AM

abaya, I read every word in each of your posts carefully, and I thought for some time before I responded to make sure I didn't come across to you as insensative.

But the fact remains, that when you claim in a response to me that you never, ever asked for anyone to see you as a victim, yet in a response to sultana that you just can't bring yourself to let the guy off the hook, then you are giving mixed signals to the board--or at least to me.

Those sentences give off to me that you are conflicted in your own ways of thinking about this. And it's coming across here through your text to me. I'm not confused about what you wrote, but you readily admit that you are confused on how to assess it. Please don't transfer that confusion over to me.

I'm not going to go through your account point by point. In fact, I can't. You don't remember the details, and your posts here are going to be geared to put you in the best light and support the point you were trying to express to Halx. Instead, I'll just restate the general point that Halx was making and the one you seemed to initially be responding to. He claimed that a number of sexual assaults could be avoided with the right education. You refuted that with your account. How could education have done anything for you, you wondered? Granted, Halx used the phrase, sex education, but I would suggest that had he been thinking of personal defense or even how to be a mature adult education, he would have been just fine. Because the fact of the matter is that when that guy found you lying in the street (and that information was news to me, "picking up" someone doesn't mean literally pulling someone up to their feet in this context unless you clarify that), you had drank yourself to a point that was dangerous for your sanity and safety. You should have never placed yourself in that situation. And this is NOT the same thing as a rapist claiming that his victim shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt.

The only thing that makes this questionable in your mind is that you were unable to give or rescind consent. You removed that capability from yourself, knowning full well that you are prone to doing things you don't normally do when you are drunk and then drinking far beyond sensable levels anyway. In fact, millions of people drink their sensabilities away precisely to dull their personal and social inhibitions. When someone sobers up in a strangers home, and regrets the sex he or she had the night before, that in no way approximates rape, or what people are beginning to understand as date-rape; rape isn't about *gettin some*; rape isn't to be taken lightly or ascribed to every awkward situation; and it shouldn't be used to explain away deep regret over losing something as precious to someone as their virginity.

all that said, I'll repeat that I feel bad for you because my own wife waited to have sex with me until she was 22. I understand how important that was to her and continues to be today. I feel as bad for you losing that important aspect of your life in the same way that I feel bad for my friend who lost his life savings at a casino--and I know people who are addicted to gambling even sober--but I don't boycott the casino and I didn't think it was theft.

Who in their right mind would put money into a casino's pocket? At any table, in any machine? We all *know* that the odds are tailored to favor the casino, that's their existence. Yet people play them all day long despite the fact that no rational person could expect to win money. Unless he was just there to have fun, his actions were not in accordance with someone who was thinking absolutely rationally.

I'm able to look at this from far enough away that I can see the similarities but I'll give you another analogy that may help you see what I am making with that gambling point: if that night, instead of having sex with him, you had given him $10,000 dollars. Would he be a thief?

02-12-2007, 11:24 AM	#80 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	abaya, I read every word in each of your posts carefully, and I thought for some time before I responded to make sure I didn't come across to you as insensative. But the fact remains, that when you claim in a response to me that you never, ever asked for anyone to see you as a victim, yet in a response to sultana that you just can't bring yourself to let the guy off the hook, then you are giving mixed signals to the board--or at least to me. Those sentences give off to me that you are conflicted in your own ways of thinking about this. And it's coming across here through your text to me. I'm not confused about what you wrote, but you readily admit that you are confused on how to assess it. Please don't transfer that confusion over to me. I'm not going to go through your account point by point. In fact, I can't. You don't remember the details, and your posts here are going to be geared to put you in the best light and support the point you were trying to express to Halx. Instead, I'll just restate the general point that Halx was making and the one you seemed to initially be responding to. He claimed that a number of sexual assaults could be avoided with the right education. You refuted that with your account. How could education have done anything for you, you wondered? Granted, Halx used the phrase, sex education, but I would suggest that had he been thinking of personal defense or even how to be a mature adult education, he would have been just fine. Because the fact of the matter is that when that guy found you lying in the street (and that information was news to me, "picking up" someone doesn't mean literally pulling someone up to their feet in this context unless you clarify that), you had drank yourself to a point that was dangerous for your sanity and safety. You should have never placed yourself in that situation. And this is NOT the same thing as a rapist claiming that his victim shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt. The only thing that makes this questionable in your mind is that you were unable to give or rescind consent. You removed that capability from yourself, knowning full well that you are prone to doing things you don't normally do when you are drunk and then drinking far beyond sensable levels anyway. In fact, millions of people drink their sensabilities away precisely to dull their personal and social inhibitions. When someone sobers up in a strangers home, and regrets the sex he or she had the night before, that in no way approximates rape, or what people are beginning to understand as date-rape; rape isn't about gettin some; rape isn't to be taken lightly or ascribed to every awkward situation; and it shouldn't be used to explain away deep regret over losing something as precious to someone as their virginity. all that said, I'll repeat that I feel bad for you because my own wife waited to have sex with me until she was 22. I understand how important that was to her and continues to be today. I feel as bad for you losing that important aspect of your life in the same way that I feel bad for my friend who lost his life savings at a casino--and I know people who are addicted to gambling even sober--but I don't boycott the casino and I didn't think it was theft. Who in their right mind would put money into a casino's pocket? At any table, in any machine? We all know that the odds are tailored to favor the casino, that's their existence. Yet people play them all day long despite the fact that no rational person could expect to win money. Unless he was just there to have fun, his actions were not in accordance with someone who was thinking absolutely rationally. I'm able to look at this from far enough away that I can see the similarities but I'll give you another analogy that may help you see what I am making with that gambling point: if that night, instead of having sex with him, you had given him $10,000 dollars. Would he be a thief? __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman