Quote:
|
Originally Posted by willravel
Again, I was using it to explain how humaity was before religion. That was thousands of years ago. It may have even been before homo sapiens. It's possible that it hasn't been since cro magnons that we've been free of religion. Before we were agrarian, we were hunter/gatherers, which leads to pack-like interactions.
|
Is this whole wolf thing just a way for you to say that you think that ethics don't necessarily need to be based on religious belief? If that's what you think, i agree with you. That being said, behaving ethically implies a certain amount of awareness on behalf of the actor, right? Or do you think plants are ethical too?
Quote:
|
Just because someone is in need means they are detrimental to the pack? You'd expect me to kill someone with a flat tire? No, the whole of the pack benifits from each individual's contribution. When a contribution ceases, the pack becomes weaker. Thus, in order to remain a strong pack, the whole must not only be concerned with the well being of the whole pack, but also the individual.
|
That's not what i was saying at all. What i was trying to point out by way of the timothy mcveigh example is that you aren't always in a position to know what will help the pack. It is overly naive to think that helping an individual inevitably helps the pack.
Quote:
|
No the real altruism is in that while my kindness comes from an inate place, I make a conscious decision to stop and actually do it. I recognize that it probably won't help me in any way other than to make me feel good about myself, but it's the right thing to do. I can explain where right and wrong come from, but an ability we have is to choose to do right or wrong. I try to choose right. Not because of fear of hell, but because I answer to myself.
|
And this makes you different from someone who is religious how(try not to generalize, it's unbecoming of one so committed to scientific accuracy)?
Quote:
|
"Ethics" is a system of moral princeples, no? Would you say that a pack stopping to help a wounded pack member is moral? Would you say that allowing each pack member to eat the food that was only brought in by one pack member is moral?
|
Do you think that eating defenseless farm animals is moral? I don't know, i've not had firsthand knowledge of the thought processes of wolves. Neither have you, for that matter. I bet the dog whisperer could tell us.
Quote:
|
Just because people do illeogical things doesn't mean it's right. The cop out is not doing the intellectual work to figure out how thing really work.
|
Right, because you hold advanced degrees and solid understandings of all of the different scientific theories which you embrace. I don't know if you're a man of scientific training, but let me tell you that there is a whole neighborhood in the ghetto of intellectual laziness for people who sing the praises of science they don't understand.
I suppose the implication in what you said is that you haven't copped out because you've done the intellectual work to figure out how things really work. If that's really what you mean than you're just as lazy as those whom you criticize.
But you're right, just because everybody is guilty of the same crime, being illogical, doesn't mean that being illogical is okay. It does, however, mean that the act of singling out criticism for a specific group based on the fact that said group is illogical is a tad bit hypocritical.
Quote:
|
Would you think I was off my rocker? Seriously, please think about this. If I tried to be a "fisher of men" and was a diciple of Zeus, wouldn't you think there was something wrong with me? Greek mythos has been dead for hundreds of years. Try, for a second, to disregard the detrimental effect an honest answer would have on your argument and really ask yourself.
|
I would think you odd, yes. But i think libertarians are odd, too. That doesn't mean i go on talk shows and write books and come up with overly broad contrivances as to why all libertarians are dumb.
Quote:
|
What kind of personal experience? Like a delusion about seeing an angel? Or maybe something coincedental happens and I think it's a mericle? Or do you just mean that I am able to choose faith over reason?
|
Faith and reason aren't mutually exclusive.
Quote:
|
So when was the church a catalyst for development? I'm trying to think of a time, but I'm coming up with a blank.
|
http://www.google.com/search?q=churc...ient=firefox-a