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Originally Posted by abaya
Do me a favor and drop the hostile tone and assumption that I'm somehow beneath your reasoning. I understand what you're trying to say, and I've read all your posts... but I see no reason for you to use such an angry tone.
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I apologize. It didn't seem bad at the time but, in retrospect, that sentence was rather condescending. I meant to convey what I would normally do and that I was going to make an exception to my usual behaviour because of a lack of response to an earlier post. I took that lack of response as a lack of understanding so I was going to be more explicit in order to expedite said understading.
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Okay, here is where we seem to disagree. Who judges "incapability" of giving consent? I was 24 years old. I got myself drunk, and I made myself incapable of remembering anything that would happen to me. I was not drugged, I was not seduced. I fucked myself up. I apparently gave consent to this guy (verbally and physically), though I have no memory of doing so either way.
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Well, if we're simply not capable of judging consent then why do we even define it? What's with the age of consent?
Obviously, as a society, we feel that we can reasonably judge consent. The fact that you incapacitated yourself doesn't mean you "asked for it." As my previous scenario list tried to demonstrate, incapacitating ones self doesn't constitute consent. She can't say no so she must be saying yes?
Again, just because you are physically capable of saying yes doesn't mean you are able to consent. You have to be of sound mind to give consent and you've clearly demonstrated that you were not that.
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NONE of that takes away from his crime of taking advantage of the situation, I agree with you on that. However, I do not see myself as some "victim" in that situation. I put myself there, and I made choices that allowed a series of events to take place. Two people are responsible, and I just don't see how any judge or court could split up that responsibility with any fairness. That's why I have/had a problem calling this "rape."
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It depends on what you mean by responsible.
I can agree that you put yourself into a situation where you increased your chances of getting raped. Like walking down a dark alleyway or practicing prostitution without due precaution, or finding the most mean and selfish men you can find and telling them you'd have sex with them but then changing your mind at the last minute and watching them get very angry. All of these women have deliberately taken actions that increased their chances of getting raped. Did they all deserve it? Did any of them deserve it? If they deserved it, does that mean the rapist is absolved of his crime? It's okay to rape girls who "are asking for it?"
In my opinion, you are responsible for your actions but that doesn't mean you deserve to be raped and it certainly doesn't free the rapist of guilt. I can't say it's okay to rape girls who put themselves in a position to be raped yet I can't help but think this is your position...