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Originally Posted by Elphaba
I believe you have made the assumption that since I didn't post in either C:A or the TFP thread that introduced that board, that I must be "sniping from the sidelines." Like many others, I read the posts in C:A and chose not to participate. Unlike some, I didn't feel the need to comment on what I saw at C:A in your TFP thread. I have read them both in their entirety. I don't read the journals and I was not privy to your private conversation with others, but it appears that I should have been aware of that knowledge before questionning your recent proclamation. Am I correct in my assumptions, so far?
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Well, to be fair, I don't think he meant that you were incapable of forming good opinions. He's been working a lot on improving the forums, and we (the staff) have taken all of these suggestions to heart. As Hal said, we're in the process of implementing a few of them (one suggestion, to combine some forums, has already begun- some of you may have noticed).
I think he felt a little sniped at only because he earnestly wants improvement here, and he'd like your help- indeed, everyone's help. The more specifically critical we can all be when delineating what we feel are the "faults", the better job we can do to make the changes you feel would really benefit the most.
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Is it that you object to my term "debacle" or would you prefer "fiasco?" When I read mods' posts that they question the wisdom of your experiment, and members express the same feelings, is that what you mean by "success?" You tell roachboy that he is "over thinking" the experiment and that you didn't have an objective in mind, but now all is explained in your journal; is that where I will learn about your success in this experiment?
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I think the mixed feelings about Concept:Anarchy can be explained as exactly what any experiment is: "wait and see". I think we can all identify with starting a fun project, having no idea exactly what we want from it. Even better, it is sometimes much better for the "truth" of your results if you create the "experiment" as one-way-blind... one party (Hal) knows what the experiment is really about, but those who participate are given no initial directions, and are instead left to devise a course of action that they come across naturally, instead of having been prompted with "rules" or "guidelines".
I hope that we can all agree on one point, at least: whether or not there were initial "intentions", and whether or not Hal personally considers his experiment a "success", he did it because he truly felt people would enjoy it. I think that should get a bit more consideration when deciding if the result was ultimately his "fault". "Best laid plans of mice and men", and all that. Good intentions are just that, regardless of the outcome.
Elphaba, I understand you feel attacked... but I think Hal's sentiment to criticism has been one motivated more by exhaustion (with the work load of all the changes and whatnot that he's engineering for the TFP) than anything else, and it can sometimes feel like there's a disconnect when specific enough examples aren't brought along with certain types of criticism. Regardless, I'd be more than happy to help work out that detail via PM if you'd like, if you feel that this isn't the forum (excuse the pun) for processing your thoughts into an ordered list of observations. The point of this thread really is to get user feedback, and I'd love to help facilitate that for you.
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Do you believe that no "harm" was done when long surpressed ill will finally gave vent and spilled over to TFP? Do you believe that no "harm" was done when you dismissed the loss of respect that several people expressed? Do you believe that no "harm" was done when members felt it necessary to defend and choose sides; members against members?
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I can think of few things more personally harmful to a community at large, than people arguing with each other- so thank you for pointing this out. I think, though, that the nature of some people is to engage others as they'd always wanted, in a consequence-free environment. The unfortunate backlash of members pushing that anarchistic freedom to the breaking point is probably not something anyone would have assumed would happen.
I mean, we're all part of this great community. I, personally, would never have guessed that such an experiment would cause such bitterness and anger to surface. I mean... we try to engage each other and be tolerant here on the TFP, but if you asked me a few weeks ago if I thought people would start ripping each other apart if given the chance- I'd have said no. Certainly there will always be some who act out of vengeance or become temporarily enamored with the appeal of consequence-free attacks, but that doesn't mean people can't come around and realize that they've just hurt people. I think the way the forum has progressed is a good example of that "calming down after the storm" atmosphere. Sure, it may not be what everyone would call "perfect", but it's certainly on its way- and it shows what growth we can all achieve together, even if left to our own devices.
When it all comes down to it, I think everyone has a great amount to offer in terms of participation, opinions, criticism, and dedication. The number of people who've posted in here just to say they love the place, and want to help make it better, is a testament to the goodness of which this place is capable.
I am sure that you, Elphaba, have great ideas in mind, and if we can resolve some bad feelings here, we can get down to adding your ideas to the collective effort we're seeing in here.
I look forward to hearing more from everyone, as we move forward in becoming stronger, together.