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Originally Posted by Chimera
Actaully..."trying" to do good is extremely relevant in this situation. Unfortunately, the perception of what is good, and what is not are the underlying issue of disagreement. I for one, fully understand there is an attempt to create freedom for a people that were kept away from it in the past. There is however a point where we must accept this "Good" has been botched with ineptitude....we were there last year in my opinion, and now are destroying any possible chance of meeting the objective of the month.
It has reached the point where our policy is destructive to the United States, as well as the Iraqi future....and therefore becomes counter-productive to all involved. Anyone who believes this war can be salvaged by further military action is, in my opinion.....not paying attention to the realities of warfare.
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Good points. Are you saying its time to bring home the troops because you think the country is so divided, or because you think the mission is hopeless?
I can't support a total withdrawal of troops quite yet. There seem to be too many dynamics still at work in Iraq, from the question of whether the militias can be destroyed, to whether political compromises can be made, to an Iraqi security force that still needs manpower, training, and supplies. Since no one else outside of the coalition seems interested in helping Iraq, it is the coalition's responsibility to get it back running, and it needs more time. If I were a senator, I would vote in favor of giving them that time. It has turned into a situation where to stop now would make null and void any and all contributions and sacrifices made by our soldiers. Only by quitting will their losses be in vain. I also realize the value of cutting your losses. We went into this thing cold. Once the shit started hitting the fan, we lost our equilibrium and had no idea what we were doing. Now that we have learned more about who the enemy is and how he operates, and since we have put a political process in place (from scratch) and we are learning the dynamics of that, I think we have a better chance of success. Before making final decisions, lets see how effective or ineffective this 'surge' is. It seems to be addressing an area of significant importance, securing of Baghdad and eliminating the militias. That al-Sadr is alive today (although 2 of his top monkees were killed today) is proof that there is still an on-the-job learning process going on.
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
I dont see any details or explicit measurable benchmarks in Bush's "new way forward"
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You're not looking carefully enough. Concerted effort to secure Baghdad, concerted effort to hit anbar province, concerted effort to hit the militias. The dissent comment was tongue in cheek. I'm a democracy guy, so I understand the importance of dissension. Not to say I don't think people abuse the notion now and then.