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Originally Posted by willravel
I'm pissed as hell that Bush was allowed to stay in the oval office after losing to Gore in 200. I'm dissapointed that he was on vacation 60% of the time and then 9/11 happened. I'm livid that no evidence was provided about the actual 9/11 attack's connection to the al Qaeda, as Condi promised. I'm enraged that we attacked Iraq instead of doing what makes an iota of sense and no one could stop it.
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edit: Ok, I agree that the construction of evidence given to the people was miserably poor. I have a huge beef about this as well. If Bush would have taken the time to explain it honestly, I don't think he would have had a problem getting it to stick. People wanted answers...and there were good, solid answers, a bit complex perhaps, but there nonetheless. I think he was in too much of a hurry that the window of opportunity to act would close. Got caught up in all the pressure to do something and fast. He underestimated the intelligence of the American people, and this was a huge mistake.
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Originally Posted by willravel
Honestly? Well I can't really go into that here.
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Why not? I'm always interested in learning something new. Please feel free to explain who you think attacked America on 9/11. It might lead to new understandings, and prove enlightening. As far as exacting revenge on an ideology, it's difficult on such a scale, don't you agree? Asymmetric warfare and all that. The question then becomes how does a formal state operating with a formal army get access to guerilla training camps and radical madrassas fueling religious fundamentalism? It seems to me the only way is with the help of whoever's government those targets are found on.
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The oil industry and corrup corporations are part of the problem, and the soultion would be in allying ourselves with those who share our goals.
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Not sure I follow. Do you mean that the American oil industry, and corrupt American corporations are part of the problem of religious extremism in the world? Any other countries involved here possibly?
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Originally Posted by me
Who is responsible for fueling that movement?
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Originally Posted by you
Do you mean who is responsible for funding? Saudis
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Not only financially, but spiritually, militarily, technically, morally, emotionally supporting religious extremism and anti-western sentiment. Unfortunately, it ain't just the Saudis. Before Hussein was removed, can there be any doubt that he was vehemently anti-western and intent on dominating the region militarily? Can there be any doubt that if and when he took over the region - even if it was by military proxy - that the world over would be that much more unstable? Can you imagine how China and India would feel with Sadaam Hussein as ruler of the Middle East? Or at minimum, continuing to destabilize the region through hostility? Do you think maybe with such a hegemony, Hussein would have become a moderate leader seeking to re-establish good relations with the rest of the world? Maybe once he was finished conquering the region, he would have mellowed out and became a friendier guy. It's a thought.
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Allies were, before 2003: Germany, France, Turkey. Then we invaded Iraq for no reason and everyone got rightfully pissed.
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More than that I would say. There were many, many countries - dozens - allied with the US against Hussein (at least publically), much before Gulf War 1 and stretching back decades. I think that even after the Iraq War, out allies will still be our allies, and our enemies will still be our enemies. It seems we have too many cultural similarities and international arrangements for everyone stay angry at America for ever. Hopefully, America will have fewer enemies in the future. Wouldn't it be beautiful if we can put Iraq back together? What an inspiration...just what the world could use right?
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Seems to me as if you don't understand what Iraq was willing and/or able of doing. I'm sure you're aware that Iraq was not even threat to Israel...
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Come on now, isn't that just silly? How many Scud missiles did Iraq fire into Israel during GW1...are you saying Iraq didn't fire them? Can you imagine what would have happened to Israel if one of those missiles were tipped with a chemical or worse agent? You want to talk about the Dead Sea overflowing. If Iraq wasn't a threat to Israel than I swear I must be living on another planet.
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So you're saying that because some Islamic arabs attacked the US, they all deserve to be lumped together and killed? Wow.
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Ah, the war on Islam. At last the true colors are revealed.
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Do you see what you are doing here? You are playing the kill-all-arabs race card. That's not a good sign...it means you are not thinking clearly. Go back 10 spaces, lose a turn, pay $500. Did I ever say anything about lumping arabs together and killing them? Did I even imply it? Why are people so sensitive about discussing religious extremism? Are you willing to at least acknowledge that there is a problem with religious extremism in this part of the world? I've said it here many times, there is a combination of over-reliance on oil, no religious separation in politics, and the wrong kinds of govermental systems that is primarily to blame for fostering the type of environment that caused 9/11. Iraq was of that environment. Why would you say "War on Islam" instead of War on Extremism and Terrorism? Or is the world actually devoid of this thing called 'terrorism'? Have I fallen into an alternate universe again?
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He was, but not in 2003. In 2003 he wasn't even a blip on the radar. OBL was much more prominant. Oh yeah, and he was behind 9/11.
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"He was..."
Man, I think you're just arguing to argue now. Not a blip on the radar? A true friend and trusted ally of the West was he?
Am I on the wrong planet again?