Holy crap, it took me forever to read through all this... I have so many things I want to respond to, but I already forget 3/4 of them and I'm not rereading this thread tonight, haha.
Anyway, my background is that I joined back in May '04... directed here by a link on Fark (yes, for the porn). I don't think that I even bothered looking at the porn the first day because I was distracted by everything else that was here. When I started reading through some of the forums, I was blown away at how members were treating each other... always with the utmost respect, and it seemed like no topic was too edgy or taboo. I loved how open everyone was and how tolerant people were of other peoples' openness. There was a great balance and synergy happening.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by skier
I think it was a shift in the values of this board away from a freedom of expression and towards increased safety.
To me, the clearest moment of that change was when I created a thread about the attractiveness of obesity. I had recognized it was a touchy subject for some people so I toned down my first post to what i thought would avoid offending some people who were sensitive about the topic. From that altered position i found i had to frantically backpedal due to accusations of being shallow, narcissistic, cruel, and just uncaring in general.
From that point, i felt that my freedom to express an opinion was stifled and I lost the expectation that i would receive a logical rebuttal to my arguments. I believe Supplecow was very correct that members here no longer wish to "rock the boat" in order to avoid being ostracized by the group.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Redjake
The TFP just isn't as balanced as it used to be. People didn't flame others for their opinion, no matter how annoying/psycho/strange/politically incorrect it was - the only time you got flamed was when you were RUDE to other people. The mods were swift with justice to the rude folk - but no matter what your opinion or thoughts or "pessemistic state of mind" were, you had a freedom of speech for your thoughts, as long as they weren't rude or offensive.
Now, it's very subjective to who can voice extreme opinions or not without repercussion. I think that's what's made TFP go down in the past years.
You used to be able to admit you enjoyed your wife taking a shit in your mouth without being flamed for it. Now, if you have an opinion that isn't in line with the "big posters," you get flamed for it, and flamed worse if you react to the initial flaming.
|
skier and
redjake described exactly why I took a hiatus from TFP. I felt the change as well, although admittedly not as distinctly as
skier. It seemed as if my posts/opinions weren't being considered or respected as much simply because I wasn't a more vocal member, so I resorted back to lurking, and eventually just quit visiting the site for a while. I just started lurking/posting again last month, and I will definitely stick around again if things change. I don't expect it to ever be like it was, but at the very least, this flaming/intimidation needs to stop... it's bad enough that it scares away new members, but even worse that it discourages older members into leaving.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shakran
As diverse as the forum is, we're much narrower than we could be without the porn - that porn is gonna keep away anyone who doesn't like it, or who believes their religion forbids them to be near it.
While the initial reaction to that from some will no doubt be "fuck 'em, we don't need that close mindedness around here anyway" we have to realize that that's a very good way to form an exclusive and obscure club. One of the underlying themes of this board that, despite indications to the contrary from others in this thread, still exists is it's overall philosophy of acceptance. Gay? So what, doesn't bother us. Transsexual? That's OK too. Hell we even let Republicans on here  But if we keep the "acceptance club" open to only those who already accept everything, it's very hard to show the closed minded ones the right path. Appeal to a broader base and not only will you increase your user count, but I think you'll have the opportunity to do some real educating.
Just my thoughts. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pigglet
Halx,
Would it be possible to give the thread starter certain mod privelidges over their own threads, after they were a full member? I'm thinking in terms of setting the tone for the type of language allowed in the thread and so forth. It seems that some of what is being talked about in this thread is that people have different preferred modes of conversation. If the forum is to be truly diverse, perhaps we could have a way to allow certain types in certain threads, while disallowing it in others. For instance, I have a feeling that jj would have a far different preference than would shanni.
|
This seems like a very interesting concept, but perhaps to idealistic. It would be great in theory because the thread starter obviously cares about the topic and wants to see their thread blossom, so they would be more likely to pay attention to it and put in the time to moderate it... lifting a lot of time demands from the actual moderators. However, it's certain some people would go overboard with this kind of power and not allow for a full spectrum of comments and viewpoints, which obviously hinders the evolution of the thread and therefore the forum.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pigglet
Re: Newbies thing: I personally don't get it. I don't think I went there once when I joined. I read the rules, and I started posting in Nonsense. I guess I don't understand why people want to "introduce" themselves on an internet forum, and why people would want to go "welcome" them? Is this farily common on forums? It seems to me that all of that will be handled naturally enough in the threads....
/perhaps a minor point, but i never thought any of that was really that big of a deal - yet a lot of people are mentioning the Newbies section it seems.
|
I think the best way to get involved on an internet forum is to pick a few topics that interest you and just jump in. However, it can be very intimidating for some people to do that because they don't know how their posts will be taken. A person who just joined a well-established forum is much like a freshman on his first day of college... they typically don't know anyone and they feel just like "a number". Some people are outgoing enough that this doesn't bother them, but not all people are like that.
Halx -- as for my suggestions, I think the TFP is still a great place for intelligent discussion, but it's not for everyone. I think the worst thing you could do is try and appeal to the masses to get more members (whether that means booting the TB or opening it to newbies)... message boards by their very nature are niche products, so you need to make the product consistent with its goals. "The Evolution of Humanity, Sexuality, and Philosophy" is a great slogan and concept, but what exactly IS your goal for this place? I think that a lot of the problems we're facing right now are important, but in order to truly cure them, you need to start from the inside and work out. What we need is a mission statement... one that is slapped right on the main page like your search for a new host is, so that people are reminded of what this place is about... its ideals, principles, and values.
Whether you want to come up with this on your own is up to you, but I think it would be more impactful if you had input from others in the community... perhaps create a wiki for it somehow?
I'll let everyone else argue about the forum restructuring... to me that doesn't seem as important as restoring the balance and synergy we once had.