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Originally Posted by cyrnel
Knife, I'd love it if you could show us case studies that backed up your position. In a perfect world, sure, and we wouldn't need operating systems. We'd all run nothing but purpose-written code that operated on systems without the waste of noops, disc latency, or wait states, and any instruction set would auto-correct viruses to solve pi to a few extra digits per infection. That's peachy in a population of stoned CS lab junkies, but it wouldn't stand a chance in the larger population. Recall many users can't find the control panel. They're just trying to accomplish a bit of emailing, shopping, or porn surfing. Explain caution and technique all day and watch the fireworks begin. Anti-ware acts as surfing policy for those who can't or won't differentiate between friend and foe, or who have differing opinions of those classifications. As always, there are good and bad solutions. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, but arguing to categorically banish those tools in the name of eliminating bad or poorly applied tools is an academic position that does not work without daily re-imaging of systems. Been there, done that.
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I'd love it if I could find a case study that shows that these AV programs actually do something. Hence, my request for people's testimonial.
I'd like to respond to a particular point:
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They're just trying to accomplish a bit of emailing, shopping, or porn surfing.
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If this were true, they wouldn't need anti-virus software at all! It is precisely because they try to do more that they get infected...
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Originally Posted by mikec
I don't live in Canada KnifeMissle - what's your point?
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I was just wondering how surprised you would be to hear that most people in Canada don't bother locking their houses, at least when they're inside.
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You don't leave your door wide open when you're not home, do you? I mean it's just silly how you go on about locks, you should understand the point...you protect yourself and your belongings IRL, and knowing what's out there, it's irresponsible to not protect yourself IRL AND virtually.
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I close my door only because I don't want to let in a draft. I enjoy the privacy, as well. It certainly isn't for security because I understand that the door offers none...
Yes, it was silly how I went on about locks. I'm sorry you didn't appreciate it. Let me remind you that you're the one that made the lock analogy...
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Forgetting about experts and saavy users, how do you propose novice users be protected from malicious spam linked to a virus they think is real? Or can you not conceive a user like that?
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I propose that novice users learn to protect themselves from malicious software with just a little bit of education. If they're smart enough to operate a car (a very difficult skill that virtually everyone has learned) they can learn how to not sabotage their own machines...
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Have you ever fixed a machine for someone who was infected and understood how they came to be infected? Just last week, 3 clicks on an machine with expired AV caused the Luder.A Infection among others - protection from this worm has been available since late December - if my customer had his "door locked" with current AV protection, he could have avoided file clean & backup, XP reinstall and file restore. Could he have been smarter by not opening the attachment? iYes. Can you expect everyone to be that smart? The reality is, no.
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I have never seen anyone who got infect
and knew how they were infected. What did they have to say for themselves?
You sound like you're over-dramatizing the situation. I'm not saying we should pass law to abolish AV software. I'm just questioning why people feel they
need such things. If you have the presence of mind to want AV software, why don't you have the presence of mind not run foreign executables?
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Originally Posted by Martel
I can say that I once plugged my freshly formatted and reinstalled computer into the campus network so that I could download AVG and install it and had received a virus through no fault of my own before I was able to do so.
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Well, not connecting your naked MS Windows run computer naked to the internet might qualify as "a modicum of discretion." However, I appreciate that you had no idea your computer was that vulnerable. I'm guess that, from this experience, you must think that it's impossible to keep a computer secure without anti-virus software. Am I right?
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If your computer's going to be on the internet, its not especially intelligent not to have an anti-virus solution, especially when you can get great ones for free.
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Well, I don't have any kind of anti-virus software running on my computer and I've been connected to the internet 24/7 since the last millennium. Do you think I'm just the luckiest guy on Earth?
Now, I do run a firewall and, again, I appreciate that you may not make a distinction between that and "anti-virus" software. Without the firewall, my computer would be infected, no doubt. However, the anti-malware stuff is completely unnecessary...