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Originally Posted by willravel
So it's a state of mind more than actual power. Gotcha.
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Like I said if you have to ask... Somtimes its actual power, sometimes its not. A 75 pound girl can be the Top Dog to a 1300 pound horse.
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If that's the case, then being top dog is a temendous responsibility. I don't think our government is up to it. Frankly, I don't think China or the EU are up to it either. We'd probably be better off with a checks and balances type of arrangement with the other powers.
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I agree. We are close to that, but not there yet.
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Had that been the case in 2003, I think we can all agree that Asia and Europe would have kept the US out of Iraq.
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Perhaps.
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If we are top dog, why did over half the planet protest the US invasion of Iraq? Shouldn't they have fallen into line?
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Not always a popularity contest.
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The US had and has no legal authority over Iraq.
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The Top Dog doesn't need legal authority.
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Had we been in danger, I would ahve supported some military action. All we've proven now is that if we don't like you, you're f**ked. That's more like a bully than a top dog.
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I can't think of the comedians name but he did a thing on dicks, assholes and pussies. I am sure you can see the punchline. I will look for a link to the joke. But you are correct in theory.
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AH! That's the problem. If we are going to lead, then we had better figure out what example we want to make.
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GWB has been pretty clear about what he wants. That is different from disagreeing with what he wants. The problem in America is that we elected GWB twice, but then we say he is an idiot, lier, etc.
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Power struggles between people or groups without morals are animalistic.
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Have you ever worked in a large corporation? People in $1200 suits can be brutal without drawing blood.
Speak for yourself. Woof Wooof.
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and when we behave like animals, we give permission for our enemies to behave like animals.
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Somtimes "men" have to do the things that "women and children" are better off not knowing about. "men", "women" and "children" used in a symbolic way not literal.
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I've read the Art of War several times.
"No ruler should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight a battle simply out of pique."
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I agree.
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"If victory is long in coming, then men’s weapons will grow dull and their ardour will be damped."
"Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain."
"Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardour damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue."
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These are the reasons we need to aggressivly put an end to this mess, and stop playing around.
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"Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays. While speed may sometimes be injudicious, tardiness can never be anything but foolish."
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Doesn't support your view.
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Originally Posted by mixedmedia
If you were familiar with my posts on this thread, you would know that I don't support the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. At least not in the very near future.
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I was making the point about the Democrats in Congress.
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I don't have to "have a plan." I'm supposed to be under the impression that my leader does. It's not my fault that he screwed up. I didn't vote for him. I'm supposed to put my faith blindly in an administration that put us in this mess in the first place and that continues to ignore the advice of those who would be able to contribute to a workable plan? Bullshit! No, my faith lies squarely with the people, conservative or liberal, who endorse multi-lateral solutions which will effectively result in us, the top dog, realizing that there is no I in the word team. 
Meaning that if the world keeps turning the way it is, there will no longer be need for one nation-state to be "top dog." And I think that's a good thing ultimately.
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We will most likely never agree on why we got into this mess, but we agree that we are in a mess. Now we need to get out of it. On one hand we have GWB continuing to try to lead, on the other we have presidential hopefuls taking pot-shots. I am interested in the Democratic answers to the 4 questions I listed. I might agree with their plan.
Inspite of my tone this is an issue I have struggled with and why I keep putting my thoughts in writing.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Oh no! Oh my god! Someone dared to mouth off about the US! Yeah that's TOTALLY a reason to invade his country and get him killed.
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When you have been in positions of authority, how have you handled defiant behavior? What did you do when all else failed, did you take the final action within your authority?
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I can threaten to turn you into a newt, but if I lack the ability it really doesn't matter.
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I deal in reality. If you threaten to kill me, I don't care about your ability to actually kill me, I won't ignore it - I won't forget it.
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Saddam could rattle his sabre all he wanted, it wouldn't give him the capability to attack us.
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What was he doing with the billions being stolen from the oil for food program?
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Your arguments make no sense.
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One, two or all of them.
I argued that Iraq is a mess and we are partially to blame and therfore have some responsibility to fix the mess. That makes no sense to you? If it doesn't, well we just don't speak the same language (symbolically).