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Originally Posted by roachboy
dk: you do not know wha the words fascism or socialism mean. you talk about "strucuture" but you do not know what that term means in this context. so it is hard to take you seriously.
it is hard to stay interested in this, which is a shame because the thread is more interesting that what it is presently turning into.
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I am well aware of what those terms mean and I certainly know the context of structure. Are you sure that you're not losing interest because you're losing the debate? I encourage you to stay in it, for once i'm interested in something on here that doesn't relate to guns or the second amendment and it would be a shame to see you drop from it.
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Originally Posted by roachboy
you also misconstrued--again--what i said about the means-end relationship relative to taxation.
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I don't see how. You've stated
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the idea that in a socialized health system "other people pay" is one that really encapsulates the effects of years and years of rightwing political/ideological domination and which demonstrates the claim that controlling how issues are framed is fundamental.
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which I take to mean that, in your opinion, 'other people pay' is either a lie or just a serious 'misrepresentation by the rightwing to demonize universal healthcare. You then state
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it makes no sense to think that the world in which you live is made up of an accumulation of separate individuals whose interests pertain only to themselves. you live in a social system. you are of a system. and the people who make up that system have the power to decide what kind of system they want to live in and to institute measures that will tend to bring that system into being. they simply have to take that power.
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. Now, although we are all a PART of that society, I don't cease to exist if I seperate myself from that society. YOU don't cease to exist if you get exiled from that society. We are not 'the borg' collective. I am an individual, you are an individual. If enough of us individuals come together with a common cause, THEN we are a part of a society. Also, to bring a constitutional angle in to this, this government wasn't founded and enumerated powers to promote a societal change. It was empowered to protect individual rights....all of our rights.
you have the wrong idea of what capitalism is, yet seem unable to grasp an individual concept of what personal responsibility, personal accountability, and personal beneficiality is in regards to capitalism. Socialism removes individuality by enforcing a 'society' or common good ideology above all else. who do you then become?