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Originally Posted by shakran
Actually it was, by me, just above.
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Then, by your 'answer', roachboy is doing nothing more than trying to hide the fact that all of the people would pay for socialized medicine by declaring that it's a red herring perpetrated by conservatives, would you agree?
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Originally Posted by shakran
You contradict yourself later when you dramatically predict a shortage of doctors because they aren't getting paid enough.
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There is absolutely no contradiction in my statement. I love the IT field, but I'm not going to design, engineer, manufacture, and maintain an enterprise network for the same pay that I'd get working at a fast food restaraunt, just like a neuro surgeon is not going to work hard to be the best when he's going to get paid the same as a general health practitioner.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Great. Where are my millions? I work hard too bub. In fact, while doctors work a lot harder than me in med school and their residency, once they're out on their own, I work harder than them. They go home at about the same time every night, they spend the holidays with their families, etc. I don't, because I'm off doing news stories. By your logic, I should be a multimillionaire at this point.
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Have you asked for that kind of pay? Would you get it if you did? I'm guessing that you'd be laughed out of the building by asking for it and expecting to recieve it....why? Because your choice of profession is not worth that much to the world market. Don't like that answer? Add something to your chosen profession to make it more valuable or choose a different profession. It's all about how you AND the market place value the job and performance, but socializing a field removes any incentive to change that.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Once again we see the Haves complaining about having to help the Have Nots. If you institute an income-scaled tax to pay for medicine,then the overall wealth distribution picture won't change. You'll still be richer than the guy down the street, and you'll still get to buy more stuff than him.
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If you're calling me one of 'the haves', guess again. I'm a 'have not', but having had a family member that was a doctor, owned her own medical practice, and related dozens of stories about how the medical industry is ruled over by the insurance industry through government regulatory boards, i've learned enough to know that no matter how you decide to scale taxes or redistribute wealth to 'equalize' society, you'll screw it up.
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Originally Posted by shakran
You mean they'll no longer charge $500 a day for hospital food? No more $5,000 charges for one Xray that doesn't cost anything NEAR that to perform? Wow, that's. . .awful?
Good. I'm tired of the poor and middle class having to settle for crap because they can't afford decent doctors.
You obviously read half of an article on European health care. What you fail to realized is that they DO have private hospitals over there. If you're willing to pay, you can bypass the wait.
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I'm not surprised that you can say all of this with, what I assume to be, a straight face and be willfully ignorant of just how substandard the medical care is going to be for all of the people that have to participate in this. It's that or you KNOW that it's going to be substandard and don't care about it.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Here's the contradiction. I thought the primary reason for becoming a doctor was to help people - logically you'd want to be the best at it. If you're in a field that you love, the incentive is there even if the money is not. I know a photographer who has 7 emmys and still only makes $40,000 a year. The cash isn't an incentive there - the desire to be the best at the field he loves is.
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You know of ONE person like that, yet you expect all of humanity to be like that? Talk about deluded. I want to be the best network engineer out there, but I expect to get paid well for the work that I do, otherwise there is no incentive for me to be the best. I love what I do, but i'm not going to do it for free and I suspect that YOU would'nt either.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Good! Why in hell do you want some asshole that's only in it for the money, and who doesn't give a crap about his patients! That's why we have so many lousy doctors in this country. It's a lucrative career that you don't have to work very hard at if you don't want to once you get through with school.
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What is it about personal accountability that you're not getting? If a doctor sucks ass and hurts or kills a patient, why bail his ass out with a malpractice settlement? Make the sorry assed individual pay for his mistake with his OWN personal pocketbook. If you do THAT, you'll end up with people who TRULY care about their patients and won't be making medical decisions based on the insurance industries bottom line. As for your not having to work very hard line, I suggest you become a doctor before you belittle the efforts of one.
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Originally Posted by shakran
There's already a shortage of nurses because hospitals work them to death while refusing to pay them even halfway decent wages because the wage budget is monopolized by the doctor-elite.
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So what you're really saying is that you feel the system is unfair because the lower salary people work harder, but get paid less, right? Instead of ruining the field by 'socializing' it, deregulate it. Remove the bureaucracy and watch it flourish. Also, nobody is making these people work as a nurse, just like nobody is making me work as an IT pro, or you as a journalist. If you're not making the money you think you should, change the way you do your job, or change your job.
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Originally Posted by shakran
That's crap. No one's gonna lower the standards. They might, however, make some changes for the better. The residency system, for example. Do YOU want to be treated by some doctor who's been awake for 30 hours? I don't.
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nobody is going to lower the standards? that would be funny if you weren't serious about it. you need to pull your head out of the sand and see the truth of how the government will fulfill it's 'obligations'. To get more doctors, they will lessen the standards, they will not raise salaries, unless they raise everyones taxes to pay for it. The 'residency' system could use some changes, I agree, but how are you going to do that without more bodies? As an example of how this works, look at the technical support industry. They pay crap, lose good people because they won't raise pay rates, so they lower the standards and hire bodies just to answer the phones and give standard answers from FAQ databases. Lower standards.
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Originally Posted by shakran
No, this is conservative crap. Government runs plenty of things well, especially if we keep idiots like Bush out of the picture. Or haven't you noticed that you can cross the entire country at no less than 55mph on long stretches of pavement called federal interstates?
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you are much smarter than this. WHY was the interstate program made? To facilitate faster and more direct distribution for products and services and allow for easier evacuations for civil defense and military usage in the event of nuclear wars or attacks. How well does this work? I see traffic jams every single day here in dallas and fort worth and thats without national emergencies. Look at the hurricane rita evacuations. Government does not run ANYTHING well, never has, never will. It's not 'conservative' crap, it's reality.
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Originally Posted by shakran
Why the hell are you worried about equipment manufacturers? Hell they'll probably do better under the government. Haven't you heard of the $500 hammer?
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yet you expect the government to pay LESS for more expensive equipment?
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Originally Posted by shakran
Congratulations. You just insulted everyone who works in a job that doesn't make them rich. Obviously they must be idiotic incompetents, or they'd be in a job that paid them more. I'm sure our resident teachers and LEOs would have a few choice words for you at this point.
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how the hell did you get that impression from what i've said? ridiculous. you're not comprehending well. Teachers work in a SOCIALIZED field, public education, and their pay is crap, why? LEO's work in a government payed position, yet you fail to understand that i've been telling you the GOVERNMENT will not run things well, hence low pay for LEOs, but you can rest assured that those council members, mayors, city managers, state reps and senators, governers, US reps and senators, judges, and other high level positions are getting paid well.
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Originally Posted by shakran
You're right. That's just absolutely horrifying. The idea! Low-income people being able to educate their kids. I can see where you might think this is a problem. I think we see very plainly where you're coming from at this point. Some of us have more of a social conscience than that, and aren't willing to let low income unfortunates die in the gutters just so we can have one more luxury.
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you see for crap and are too blinded in your desire for social equality to see the reality of how it's never going to be obtained by government enforcement. You read that i'm denigrating education for low income kids instead of what i'm really saying, which is the government run public education system sucks ass. Next you'll be telling me that all we need to do is fund it better, right? You better look up the financial numbers of public education first though.