Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dksuddeth
The question was asked 'how will socialized healthcare be paid for', and hasn't been answered yet
|
Actually it was, by me, just above.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by my post that you didn't read
The trouble is that when you socialize something - healthcare is a good example of something that desperately needs socialization - taxes go up, and people immediately panic. Oh shit! My taxes will go up! I'll be broke!
They fail to realize (and those opposed to socializing a given system are only too happy to keep them in the dark) that while taxes will increase a bit, they will not increase to the point where the tax increase is more than the money the average person will save on healthcare. If I could drop insurance, not have any copays for my meds, not have to pay outright for my kid's braces, etc etc etc, I'd more than make up for the tax increase, because the burden of healthcare would be shared across the entire country.
Sure Europeans have markedly higher tax rates than we here in the States do, but they also get free healthcare. Period. No bullshitting about whether this or that cancer treatment is "medically necessary." If they need it, they get it, and that's the end of that.
|
Quote:
|
That is chiefly from a desire to help people,
|
You contradict yourself later when you dramatically predict a shortage of doctors because they aren't getting paid enough.
Quote:
|
An individual should expect to be financially rewarded for hardwork and personal contributions to society.
|
Great. Where are my millions? I work hard too bub. In fact, while doctors work a lot harder than me in med school and their residency, once they're out on their own, I work harder than them. They go home at about the same time every night, they spend the holidays with their families, etc. I don't, because I'm off doing news stories. By your logic, I should be a multimillionaire at this point.
Quote:
|
. So you will end up paying for someone elses medical care, just like I will, and everyone else.
|
Once again we see the Haves complaining about having to help the Have Nots. If you institute an income-scaled tax to pay for medicine,then the overall wealth distribution picture won't change. You'll still be richer than the guy down the street, and you'll still get to buy more stuff than him.
Quote:
|
With the income for the entire medical field now coming from one single source (government), what's going to happen? costs are going to be fixed.
|
You mean they'll no longer charge $500 a day for hospital food? No more $5,000 charges for one Xray that doesn't cost anything NEAR that to perform? Wow, that's. . .awful?
Quote:
|
No longer will you be hearing people saying they want the best doctor/surgeon for their wife or child because money is no object.
|
Good. I'm tired of the poor and middle class having to settle for crap because they can't afford decent doctors.
Quote:
|
You will see a 3 to 6 month scheduling issue for nearly every non-immediate critical impending death issue.
|
You obviously read half of an article on European health care. What you fail to realized is that they DO have private hospitals over there. If you're willing to pay, you can bypass the wait.
Quote:
|
With fixed costs, there is no incentive to be the 'best' doctor, since being the best will not place you in a higher income bracket, thus no incentive.
|
Here's the contradiction. I thought the primary reason for becoming a doctor was to help people - logically you'd want to be the best at it. If you're in a field that you love, the incentive is there even if the money is not. I know a photographer who has 7 emmys and still only makes $40,000 a year. The cash isn't an incentive there - the desire to be the best at the field he loves is.
Quote:
|
The only ones you will see remaining in the medical field are the ones who are there because they WANT to be there.
|
Good! Why in hell do you want some asshole that's only in it for the money, and who doesn't give a crap about his patients! That's why we have so many lousy doctors in this country. It's a lucrative career that you don't have to work very hard at if you don't want to once you get through with school.
Quote:
|
What will then follow is a serious shortage of doctors, nurses, surgeons, etc.
|
There's already a shortage of nurses because hospitals work them to death while refusing to pay them even halfway decent wages because the wage budget is monopolized by the doctor-elite.
Quote:
|
To deal with this, standards will be lessened, medical care will then become substandard.
|
That's crap. No one's gonna lower the standards. They might, however, make some changes for the better. The residency system, for example. Do YOU want to be treated by some doctor who's been awake for 30 hours? I don't.
Quote:
|
Why should it be any different? Government does not run anything well. This is historical fact.
|
No, this is conservative crap. Government runs plenty of things well, especially if we keep idiots like Bush out of the picture. Or haven't you noticed that you can cross the entire country at no less than 55mph on long stretches of pavement called federal interstates?
Quote:
|
BUT, universal healthcare WILL affect all medical related markets like equipment manufacturers, suppliers, pharmas, and it will trickle down to educational facilities as well.
|
Why the hell are you worried about equipment manufacturers? Hell they'll probably do better under the government. Haven't you heard of the $500 hammer?
Quote:
|
Without the incentive to be financially successful, you will retard the entire field and all related markets with it.
|
Congratulations. You just insulted everyone who works in a job that doesn't make them rich. Obviously they must be idiotic incompetents, or they'd be in a job that paid them more. I'm sure our resident teachers and LEOs would have a few choice words for you at this point.
Quote:
|
Again, one need only to look at the public education system to see the results that socialism will bring about.
|
You're right. That's just absolutely horrifying. The idea! Low-income people being able to educate their kids. I can see where you might think this is a problem. I think we see very plainly where you're coming from at this point. Some of us have more of a social conscience than that, and aren't willing to let low income unfortunates die in the gutters just so we can have one more luxury.