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Banned
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Originally Posted by dlishsguy
debaser, his last comment wasnt 'this is the bravery of arab men'?
ive found this website with the translation and text of what was said on the video..its pretty accurate from what ive seen of the tape.. his last words are quite clear and were actually the recital of the 'proclamation of faith' also known as the 'shahada' bearing witness in the Oneness of God, before the trap door was flung open.
heres the link
http://www.rightsided.org/index.php/...-and-analysis/ |
Here is more detailed and elaborate background. IMO, no good will come of this for the US, Iraq, or the region. Saddam appears to have died as he lived....and the answer to the question, "was Iraq the way Iraq was, because Saddam was the way Saddam was....or..." is answered. Gertrude Bell answered that question back in 1920:
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...401355_pf.html
......Bell, a singular, gentle-born woman who had already established a name through Arab travels and scholarly writings rivaling those of any man of her time, arrived soon after. She stayed on for the rest of her life, as Oriental secretary to British governments, carving out and creating modern-day Iraq as much as any single person.
Bell sketched the boundaries of Iraq on tracing paper after careful consultation with Iraqi tribes, consideration of Britain's need for oil and her own idiosyncratic geopolitical beliefs.
<b>"The truth is I'm becoming a Sunni myself; you know where you are with them, they are staunch and they are guided, according to their lights, by reason; whereas with the Shi'ahs, however well intentioned they may be, at any moment some ignorant fanatic of an alim may tell them that by the order of God and himself they are to think differently,"</b> she wrote home.
She and her allies gave the monarchy to the minority Sunnis, denied independence to the Kurds in order to keep northern oil fields for Britain and withheld from the Shiite majority the democracy of which she thought them incapable.
<b>"The object of every government here has always been to keep the Shi'ah divines from taking charge of public affairs," Bell wrote.......</b>
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Quote:
http://www.juancole.com/2007/01/apoc...ills-6-at.html
Tuesday, January 02, 2007
Apocalypse II in Samarra
US Kills 6 at National Dialogue Front Office
<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/01/iraq/main2319799.shtml">CBS/AP report that an angry crowd of Sunni Arab demonstrators in the northern city of Samarra</a>, protesting Saddam's execution, broke "broke the locks off the badly damaged Shiite Golden Dome mosque and marched through carrying a mock coffin and photo of the executed former leader."
Folks, this is very bad news. The Askariyah Shrine (it isn't just a mosque) is associated with the <a href="http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/SHIA/HIDDEN.HTM">Hidden Twelfth Imam</a>, who is expected by Shiites to appear at the end of time to restore the world to justice. (For them, the Imam Mahdi is sort of like the second coming of Christ for Christians). <b>The Muqtada al-Sadr movement is millenarian and believes he will reveal himself at any moment.</b>
The centrality of the cult of the Twelfth Imam, a direct descendant of the Prophet Muhammad who is said to have vanished in 873 AD, helps explain why the bombing of the Golden Dome on February 21 of 2006 set off a frenzy of Shiite, Sadrist attacks on Sunni Arabs. Last February, stuck in a Phoenix hotel because of a missed flight and without an internet connection for my laptop, I blogged from my Treo that it was <a href="http://www.juancole.com/2006/02/shiite-protests-roil-iraq-tuesday-was.html">an apocalyptic day</a>. Sadly, it was, kicking off a frenzy of sectarian violence that has grown each subsequent month.
For Sunni Arabs to parade a symbolic coffin of Saddam through the ruins of the Askariya shrine won't be exactly good for social peace in Iraq. Can't that site be properly guarded or something?
<a href="http://www.daralhayat.com/arab_news/levant_news/01-2007/Item-20070101-df13d154-c0a8-10ed-0095-49af9ecb2038/story.html">Al-Hayat reports in Arabic</a> that hundreds of demonstrators marched in Dur, near Tikrit on Monday, protesting the execution of Saddam Hussein. Young men carried machine guns and fired them in the air, chanting "Muqtada, you coward," and "Hakim! Yellow-belly! Agent of the Americans!" They unveiled an enormous mosaic of Saddam Hussein inscribed, "The Martry-Hero."
There was also a demonstration in the northern Baghdad district of Adhamiya, <a href="http://www.azzaman.com/index.asp?fname=2007\01\01-01\995.htm&storytitle=">at which protesters shouted condemnations</a> of Muqtada al-Sadr, according to al-Zaman. Some of those present at Saddam's execution shouted "Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada!" <h3>Saddam mocked them, asking if this was their sign of manliness. (Personally, I believe this is Saddam's reference to rumors in Iraq that Muqtada's wife left him, saying that he is actually gay.</h3> He is saying that chanting Muqtada's name is a sign that they are also not real men.).....
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Quote:
http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php...Hanging_Saddam
Timing and Hostile Repartee Creates Further Division
By NIR ROSEN 12/31/2006 2:17 PM ET
Saddam Hussein became the first modern Arab dictator to die violently since Egypt's Anwar Sadat in 1981. Saddam's hanging at the hands of chubby Iraqi men wearing ski masks is likely to be perceived by many as an American execution and as part of a trend of American missteps contributing to sectarian tensions in Iraq and the region. The trial of Saddam was viewed by detractors as an event stage-managed by the Americans. According to Human Rights Watch, the Iraqi judges and lawyers involved in prosecuting Saddam were ill prepared and relied on their American advisers. American minders shut off the microphones and ordered the translators to halt whenever they disapproved of what was being said by the defendants.
The important Muslim holiday of Eid al Adha was due to begin over the weekend. For Sunnis it began on Saturday the 30th of December. For Shias it begins on Sunday the 31st. <b>According to tradition in Mecca, battles are suspended during the Hajj period so that pilgrims can safely march to Mecca. This practice even predated Islam and Muslims preserved this tradition, calling this period 'Al Ashur al Hurm,' or the months of truce.</b> By hanging Saddam on the Sunni Eid the Americans and the Iraqi government were in effect saying that only the Shia Eid had legitimacy. Sunnis were irate that Shia traditions were given primacy (as they are more and more in Iraq these days) and that Shias disrespected the tradition and killed Saddam on this day. Because the Iraqi constitution itself prohibits executions from being carried out on Eid, the Iraqi government had to officially declare that Eid did not begin until Sunday the 31st. It was a striking decision, virtually declaring that Iraq is now a Shia state. Eid al Adha is the festival of the sacrifice of the sheep. Some may perceive it as the day Saddam was sacrificed.
Saddam had been in American custody and was handed over to Iraqis just before his execution. It is therefore hard to dismiss the perception that the Americans could have waited, because in the end it is they who have the final say over such events in Iraq. Iraqi officials have consistently publicly complained that they have no authority and the Americans control the Iraqi police and the Army. It is therefore unusual that Iraqis would suddenly regain sovereignty for this important event. For many Sunnis and Arabs in the region, this appears to be one president ordering the death of another president. It was possibly a message to Sunnis, a warning. The Americans often equated Saddam with the Sunni resistance to the occupation. By killing Saddam they were killing what they believed was the symbol of the Sunni resistance, expecting them to realize their cause was hopeless. Sunnis could perceive the execution, and its timing, as a message to them: "We are killing you." But Saddam's death might now liberate the Sunni resistance from association with Saddam and the Baathists. They can now more plausibly claim that they are fighting for national liberation and not out of support for the former regime as their American and Iraqi government opponents have so often claimed. A lack of a hood (victims normally do not have a choice to wear a hood) a scarf to prevent rope burn for the soon to be distributed photo, a hallmark of US "We Got Him" psyops tactics. Even the US plane that flew him to his final resting spot seems to indicate US management.
The unofficial video of the execution, filmed on the mobile cell phone of one of the officials present is sure to further inflame sectarianism, because it is clearly a Shia execution. Men are heard talking, one of them is called Ali. As the executioners argue over how to best position the rope on his neck Saddam calls out to god, saying, "ya Allah." Referring to Shias, one official says "those who pray for Muhamad and the family of Muhamad have won!" Others triumphantly respond in the Shia chant: "Our God prays for Muhamad and the family of Muhamad." Others then add the part chanted by supporters of Muqtada al Sadr: "And speed his (the Mahdi's) return! And damn his enemies! And make his son victorious! Muqtada! Muqtada! Muqtada!"
Saddam then smiles and says something mocking about Muqtada. "Muqtada! It is this..." but the rest is blocked by the voices of officials saying "ila jahanam," or "go to Hell." Saddam looks down and says "Is this your manhood...?" As the rope is put around Saddam's neck somebody shouts "long live Muhamad Baqir al Sadr!" referring to an important Shia cleric who founded the Dawa Party and was also Muqtada's relative. Baqir al Sadr was executed by Saddam in 1980. He is venerated by all three major Shia movements in Iraq, the Dawa, the Sadrists and the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Others insult Saddam. One man asks them to stop: "I beg you, I beg you, the man is being executed!" Saddam then says the Shahada, or testimony, that there is no god but Allah and Muhamad is his prophet. When he tries to say it again the trap door opens and he falls through to be hung. One man then shouts that "the tyranny has ended!" and others call out triumphal Shia chants. Somebody wants to remove the rope from his neck but is told to wait eight minutes.
<b>The Sunni Islamo-nationalist website Islam Memo claimed that the Safavids (Persians, meaning Shias) burned Saddam's Quran after they killed him. They also said that Saddam exchanged insults with the witnesses to his execution and cursed one of them, saying "God damn you, Persian midget."</b> The same website also claimed that Ayatolla Ali Sistani blessed Saddam's execution and that the Iraqi government refused to provide Saddam with a Sunni cleric to pray for him before the execution. Finally, they asserted that Saddam said "Palestine is Arab" and then recited the Muslim Shahada, testifying that there is no god but Allah and Muhamad is his prophet, and then he was executed. The website claimed that following his death Saddam's body was abused.
Although the Shia dominated Iraqi media claimed Saddam was terrified prior to his execution and fought with his hangmen, Saddam's on screen visage was one of aplomb, for he was conscious of the image he was displaying and wanted to go down as the grand historic leader he believed himself to be......
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So.....let's compare where the reagion was on Sept. 12, 2001. The U.S. was pursuing one man, in Afghanistan....and sicx months before, the Taleban were given $70 million from the U.S., according to Colin Poweel, to compensate Afghani opium farmers after the Taleban eliminated the opium crop. The women wore burkhas, and Afghanistan was subject to sharia law.
Iran was hemmed in by it's Taleban enemy in Afghanistan, and by the weakened Saddam....still perceived by Iran, and the world as an enemy that contained his neighbors' (Iran) ambition and aggression.
The Kurds, independent under the protection of the 10 years old, "no fly zone", enjoyed autonomy, and were an irritant to Turkey, but no more so than when Saddam controlled the region. Turkey could still consider the Kurdish province to be part of Iraq, and there was no need to pre-empt Kurdish ambitions for independence. The 1920 status quo in the region....the checks and balances of Sunni rule in Iraq, via Saddam, were just as Winston Churchill and Gertrude Bell had planned, 81 years before.....
The US treasury debt was $5.7 trillion, and US military and intelligence annual spending was under $350 billion, and the federal budget was balanced.
All of the above has been upset, the Afghan opium crop is huge, US debt and spending is out of control, the US "on the ground" military is overextended on two fronts, undermanned and wearing out it's equipment. The Taleban are restablishing their rule in Afghanistan, the women still wear burkhas, and the sharia is the law.
Iran is enjoying it's new dominance of the region, and the shi'a of Iraq are united with Iran. The Kurds are making the Turks nervous, and the Saudis warn that they will not tolerate the crushing of their Sunni brothers in Iraq.
Saddam's execution is just one more setback in a series of blunders and mistakes made by the US.....
....and here's the hope of US leadership of the future:
Quote:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/03/...q-vanity-fair/
.......According to Vanity Fair, an audience member told McCain, “The war’s the big issue. Some kind of disengagement — it’s going to have to happen. It’s a big issue for you…in 24 months.” McCain responded:
<b>“I do believe this issue isn’t going to be around in 2008. I think it’s going to either tip into civil war … ” He breaks off, as if not wanting to rehearse the handful of other unattractive possibilities. “Listen,” he says, “I believe in prayer. I pray every night.” And that’s where he leaves his discussion of the war this morning: at the kneeling rail.
Later, McCain told Vanity Fair editor Todd Purdum, “It’s just so hard for me to contemplate failure that I can’t make the next step.”</b>
Quotes attributed to anonymous McCain advisers also suggest that the Arizona senator — who passionately supported the initial Iraq invasion and is leading the charge for escalation — now sees his initial support as a liability:
Asked whether, knowing all that is known now (no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, no effective Iraqi army), McCain would have still supported the invasion, his aides say he doesn’t view the question in such simple terms. …
“He stands by his support for doing something,” one aide said. …
“If you knew we were going to lose, would you still be for it?” the aide asked. “That’s a different hypothetical question, that he doesn’t have to answer yet.”
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