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Originally Posted by josie
Sorry to jump in here, but I think it's important to remember that there are other means of having children in your life than becoming one of the senseless breeding masses and reproducing.
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Absolutely, I almost always mention (and did mention, earlier on) adoption, you're totally correct.
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And I have to agree with what Nikki said, and don't find it offensive at all-it's common sense. If a person doesn't like children-they should definitely bypass parenthood.
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There's a huge difference between saying, "if you don't like kids, then it makes sense that you shouldn't have children" and this case. I, myself, have said to someone "well if you don't like kids, that's a pretty good reason not to have any"- which is not telling someone they should not reproduce.
Telling a person they should not have children because you find their opinion on another matter to be in error, and therefore should not have children because of that opinion, is telling them they are unfit to be a parent in their opinion, which is an insult. Also, in this case, I was being told I should not reproduce because I don't feel that having a child is the most rewarding thing that every human being can do- having nothing to do with liking or not liking children, as in your example.
So yes, it's offensive and an insult.
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...and honestly, reproducing a child for your own pleasure and enjoyment is basically a selfish act anyway. Especially if we're not doing anything to make the world a better place for that child to live in.
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You have no idea how many parents won't admit that. There are a lot of selfish people out there, but we're to believe that all parents are exempt from selfish behavior- not so. This is not at all to say that all reasons for having children are selfish, or that all parents are selfish, or even a majority- the point I'm making is that most parents won't admit that it exists, that there are people who have children for selfish reasons, because they believe there's no such thing as a "selfish reason" for having a kid. Well said.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you don't like kids or you don't want kids in your life.
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You'd think there's nothing wrong with it, and I don't believe there is, but the attitude I get from parents (and have gotten all my life) shows me otherwise.
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Children and all their attendent needs are an acquired taste. And a lot of people who have kids because they've always "loved" them, find out later they really had no idea how much was involved, and don't really "love" or "enjoy" the actual experience at all. And I think sadly, this is a much more commonly occuring scenario than the one where someone has enough self-awareness to say from the beginning - "I don't think I'd be a good parent - I'm not having kids"- and avoid what often turns out to be harmful fiasco, especially for the child involved.
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I have seen this many times... people who always loved kids, then had one, and realized it was way more than they bargained for when it's your own- or find that, now that it's their own, they don't really enjoy it because it's a 24/7 thing now, where before it was play time and such, then hand them back to their mom and dad. A friend of mine from a former job (he's about 36) has two kids, and he hates being a father. He's a good father, but he loathes the entire experience. He always told his girlfriend he didn't want kids, she agreed- they got married, she suddenly demanded children. He loved her too much to say no. He's a good father, and he doesn't resent his children at all, but he hates being a dad- he never wanted to be a dad to begin with, and now he has to be. He always made sure they had everything they needed, and his kids love him- but he'll tell you he'd take it back if he had it to do over.
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*also, can someone tell me how to get the "originally posted by" tag on their quotes? Or is that not available in the quick reply - which is what I used? Thanks.
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When you quote someone, and you use the [-quote] tag (without the - in it), use the person's name in this way: [-quote=thename] and then [/quote-] at the end like normal. Ignore the dashes, they keep the thing from making the examples into actual quoted area. lol
So, [-quote=analog]Hello.[/quote-] without the example dashes, gives you:
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Originally Posted by analog
Hello.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
However, if you feel like making statements about the qualia of being a parent and you have never actually been a parent you should recognize that it is highly likely that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to that particular topic.
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See, the issue that I have with this sort of logic, and why it's patently faulty, is because if I went and ejaculated into a female right now, impregnated her, and she bore a child- suddenly my opinion is valid in your eyes because I'm now a "parent".
You insist the status of "parent" makes a person valid to argue parenting with you- when all it takes to be a parent is a sperm and an egg, not skills, a brain, common sense, or anything else. Maybe I should go knock up a girl just so you'll respect or accept my opinions- because then, you'd have to, by your own definition of what allows a person to talk about these things.
Which is asinine.
I also was not arguing anything about the qualifications for being a parent, so I have no idea what you're talking about in that respect. Clearly, since at least one person (JumpinJesus) says it is not the most fulfilling/meaningful thing that every person can do, and he does bear the all-important status of "parent" (and has for many years) which renders him able to converse on such topics, I am not incorrect in saying that being a parent is not, the most fulfilling/meaningful thing that every person can do. He is a parent, and he feels there are other things more fulfilling/meaningful. So, I'm not sure what we're arguing, since you are arguing for a universal application of opinion onto all persons, and I'm saying that it is incorrect to say anything of the sort is universally true- and here is an example in this very thread.