Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Guys expressing emotion: always ends badly?

Martian · 12-08-2006, 10:15 AM

We're getting into the whole nature/nurture thing now. Here's my two cents...

A great many men (myself included) simply aren't equipped with the tools to deal with their own emotions. Grandfather tells dad that 'real men don't eat quiche,' dad passes this tidbit on to son and son, who uses dad as his primary model for exactly what a man is, doesn't eat quiche. Mum, whose dad didn't eat quiche either, may or may not recognize that this isn't precisely healthy behaviour. However, odds on are that she doesn't have the ability to do anything about it either; since none of the men she's been close to were able to express their emotions in a competent manner, she doesn't know how to deal with men on an emotional level.

Note the emphasis.

There are, by my observations, two ways that women deal with this. The first method, the one that Moskie has had unfortunate experience with, is that they buy into the stereotype. They tell their boyfriends that 'real men don't eat quiche,' and if the guy wants quiche anyway they ditch him. Or when he tries to go that way, they shut him down. I've seen (and experienced) women who will belittle their men in order to prevent that kind of behaviour and therefore avoid having to deal with something that they just don't know how to handle.

That leaves the man in a pretty shitty spot. He's already down about something and when he goes to the person who's supposed to give him emotinonal support, she makes him feel worse. A lot of the time, she makes him feel like it's his fault that he got hurt somehow, whether or not he (or she) inflicted the pain. And the man, who believes that women are 'more in touch with their emotions,' doesn't know how to deal with this. If he's lucky, he'll realize that the woman may well be wrong on matters of the heart after all, but he's still left in the tricky spot of not being to express any sort of negative or sensitive feeling without being hurt further. So either way, he stops doing it. He internalizes instead and finds ways to let off the stress that he feels. This isn't exactly a healthy way to go through life either, particularly since the man may well pass these behaviours onto any sons of his and thereby perpetuate the whole thing even further. Nonetheless, there are millions of men the world over who live this way and we haven't managed to wipe ourselves off the face of the planet quite yet.

The other way that women deal with this is by recognizing that men do in fact have emotional needs. However, these women are still not equipped to deal with a man in an emotional sense. They cope with this by expecting to relate emotionally to the man as if he were a woman.

I'll stop here for an aside, because I'm pretty sure there's going to be at least one woman out there right now who's thinking 'feelings are feelings and gender doesn't matter.' Which is great, except that in the situation we've set up it's totally false. If we assume that this man was raised by a father who wasn't capable of expressing his emotions and is therefore unable to express (or even recognize, in a lot of cases) his own feelings, then you can't expect relate to him the same way as you would a woman who's been taught that it's okay to cry and has the equipment to deal with her feelings.

The result of this is men like Moskie or myself. We come along and we say something like 'sometimes I get angry or upset and I'm not exactly sure why.' All the men in the room respond with 'Amen, brotha!' since we go through that. But the women are scratching their heads. They expect the men to have all of the same tools to deal with emotions as they do, so when a man says that he's missing the emotional equivalent of a saw or a hammer, the woman doesn't get it. She doesn't think it's possible that he could not have one of those, so instead she assumes that he does have one but he just isn't using it like he's supposed to. As a result, she tries to help him get into the habit of using it. She asks him how he's feeling, asks him to explain himself, asks him why he feels the way he does. And this makes the man feel even worse, since it's the equivalent of asking him to change the oil without giving him any wrenches. He doesn't know why or how or when or where he feels these things. He may have some vague idea that it has something to do with this or that, but mostly he just feels the way he does and doesn't really know how to get any more out of it.

I will take a moment here to point out that nobody in either scenario is behaving selfishly, although there are situations where their actions might look that way. The women in both cases are attempting to help their men deal with the whole emotional thicket, but neither approach is very effective. And the men, in turn, are responding to this as best they're able. Unfortunately in a lot of situations that means simply shutting down.

I don't pretend to know whether there's any inherent difference between the emotions men feel and the emotions women feel. I do know that neither my father nor my step-father were able to express emotions in any competent way. I also know that my own emotional responses are what I learned observing them. It was only recently and with the help of a very special woman that I was even able to recognize that there was anything at all wrong with the way I handled my own emotions and changing my behaviours is an ongoing and difficult process. I'm doing it alone and it takes a lot of time and reflection. Often I do spend hours or even days analyzing how I feel, why I feel that way and what triggered that feeling in the first place. I'm working on developing those tools, but it's a long journey.

Finally, I would like to mention that ratbastid does, as always, speak the truth. Not all men are like the ones described above, nor are all women. This is simply what I see as a typical scenario that arises from the whole 'manly man' stereotype and how it causes us to behave. If you want to change that about yourself, it really is better to do it with some emotional support. You'll be surprised and often highly dismayed by what's buried in your own sub-conscious and having a shoulder nearby to cry on if you need it is definitely for the best.

12-08-2006, 10:15 AM	#49 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	We're getting into the whole nature/nurture thing now. Here's my two cents... A great many men (myself included) simply aren't equipped with the tools to deal with their own emotions. Grandfather tells dad that 'real men don't eat quiche,' dad passes this tidbit on to son and son, who uses dad as his primary model for exactly what a man is, doesn't eat quiche. Mum, whose dad didn't eat quiche either, may or may not recognize that this isn't precisely healthy behaviour. However, odds on are that she doesn't have the ability to do anything about it either; since none of the men she's been close to were able to express their emotions in a competent manner, she doesn't know how to deal with men on an emotional level. Note the emphasis. There are, by my observations, two ways that women deal with this. The first method, the one that Moskie has had unfortunate experience with, is that they buy into the stereotype. They tell their boyfriends that 'real men don't eat quiche,' and if the guy wants quiche anyway they ditch him. Or when he tries to go that way, they shut him down. I've seen (and experienced) women who will belittle their men in order to prevent that kind of behaviour and therefore avoid having to deal with something that they just don't know how to handle. That leaves the man in a pretty shitty spot. He's already down about something and when he goes to the person who's supposed to give him emotinonal support, she makes him feel worse. A lot of the time, she makes him feel like it's his fault that he got hurt somehow, whether or not he (or she) inflicted the pain. And the man, who believes that women are 'more in touch with their emotions,' doesn't know how to deal with this. If he's lucky, he'll realize that the woman may well be wrong on matters of the heart after all, but he's still left in the tricky spot of not being to express any sort of negative or sensitive feeling without being hurt further. So either way, he stops doing it. He internalizes instead and finds ways to let off the stress that he feels. This isn't exactly a healthy way to go through life either, particularly since the man may well pass these behaviours onto any sons of his and thereby perpetuate the whole thing even further. Nonetheless, there are millions of men the world over who live this way and we haven't managed to wipe ourselves off the face of the planet quite yet. The other way that women deal with this is by recognizing that men do in fact have emotional needs. However, these women are still not equipped to deal with a man in an emotional sense. They cope with this by expecting to relate emotionally to the man as if he were a woman. I'll stop here for an aside, because I'm pretty sure there's going to be at least one woman out there right now who's thinking 'feelings are feelings and gender doesn't matter.' Which is great, except that in the situation we've set up it's totally false. If we assume that this man was raised by a father who wasn't capable of expressing his emotions and is therefore unable to express (or even recognize, in a lot of cases) his own feelings, then you can't expect relate to him the same way as you would a woman who's been taught that it's okay to cry and has the equipment to deal with her feelings. The result of this is men like Moskie or myself. We come along and we say something like 'sometimes I get angry or upset and I'm not exactly sure why.' All the men in the room respond with 'Amen, brotha!' since we go through that. But the women are scratching their heads. They expect the men to have all of the same tools to deal with emotions as they do, so when a man says that he's missing the emotional equivalent of a saw or a hammer, the woman doesn't get it. She doesn't think it's possible that he could not have one of those, so instead she assumes that he does have one but he just isn't using it like he's supposed to. As a result, she tries to help him get into the habit of using it. She asks him how he's feeling, asks him to explain himself, asks him why he feels the way he does. And this makes the man feel even worse, since it's the equivalent of asking him to change the oil without giving him any wrenches. He doesn't know why or how or when or where he feels these things. He may have some vague idea that it has something to do with this or that, but mostly he just feels the way he does and doesn't really know how to get any more out of it. I will take a moment here to point out that nobody in either scenario is behaving selfishly, although there are situations where their actions might look that way. The women in both cases are attempting to help their men deal with the whole emotional thicket, but neither approach is very effective. And the men, in turn, are responding to this as best they're able. Unfortunately in a lot of situations that means simply shutting down. I don't pretend to know whether there's any inherent difference between the emotions men feel and the emotions women feel. I do know that neither my father nor my step-father were able to express emotions in any competent way. I also know that my own emotional responses are what I learned observing them. It was only recently and with the help of a very special woman that I was even able to recognize that there was anything at all wrong with the way I handled my own emotions and changing my behaviours is an ongoing and difficult process. I'm doing it alone and it takes a lot of time and reflection. Often I do spend hours or even days analyzing how I feel, why I feel that way and what triggered that feeling in the first place. I'm working on developing those tools, but it's a long journey. Finally, I would like to mention that ratbastid does, as always, speak the truth. Not all men are like the ones described above, nor are all women. This is simply what I see as a typical scenario that arises from the whole 'manly man' stereotype and how it causes us to behave. If you want to change that about yourself, it really is better to do it with some emotional support. You'll be surprised and often highly dismayed by what's buried in your own sub-conscious and having a shoulder nearby to cry on if you need it is definitely for the best. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame