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Originally Posted by n0nsensical
Yeah, I think this might be the most outrageous post in the thread yet. I'm not sure what kind of police state you're running down there, but this is the United States of America, and we fought for freedom from tyranny and we don't take it lightly. Some of us, anyway.
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Its not the US, its a private establishment inside of the US. if they held him down and continued to taser him, if they had tasered a sensitive spot, if they had pushed him back down and kept tasering him, that’s abuse, but they tasered him, let him respond, and then since he did not comply, he was tasered again.
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Originally Posted by n0nsensical
So it brings the point back up: why don't the police taser EVERYONE who's suspected of a crime and doesn't make it convenient for the police to arrest them to make sure none of them pull weapons?
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Because most are smart enough to follow directions, he was asked to leave and he went limp. His arms may have been close to his body, we don’t know. People that are standing are easy to watch where there hands are, unlike someone who is limp on the ground. When the police bend down to cuff / restrain someone on the ground, they are off balance and vulnerable. that is why they have suspects place there hands either all the way stretched out, or on top of the head, this guy was limp and his hands where most likely in an unsafe position (from the cops perspective)
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Originally Posted by n0nsensical
...(Although there may or may not be a "racial profiling" aspect, and I think it would be wrong for him to be singled out to provide ID, I can't really comment on that because I don't know if anyone else was asked for ID or if not why he was singled out)...
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racial profiling is a mute point, the cops had absolutely nothing to do with singling this guy out, that was the library staff.
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Originally Posted by n0nsensical
What I'm saying is that his removal should have been handled in a civilized manner worthy of a democratic republic. Police torture as a means of coercion is not civilized and has no place in, yes, a free society. And when I say free society, I'm not talking about the freedom to do whatever you want. I'm talking about the freedoms we do in fact have taken as a whole, including freedom from tyranny of the authorities. Now sure, UCPD is a minor authority, and tasering a harmless suspect may be a minor tyranny, but I'm still calling it tyranny, and fear of the police is not the reason we should be following the law.
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I don’t see this as torture, as some one who has been tasered, I can tell you definitively, that it is not painful, it is uncomfortable, not in a pain sense, but in a 'why can't I control my limb' sense. I still have not heard of a good alternative solution to this problem, all I hear is they cops should have picked him up and carried him out; this is not safe for the cops.
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Originally Posted by n0nsensical
If someone is trespassing on my property and I tell him to leave, even if I tell him I'm going to punch him in the face if he doesn't leave, if I punch him in the face, that's still assault and battery, and it wouldn't be right for law enforcement to do it either. You still have rights when you're suspected of committing a crime, and in fact you still have rights when you're convicted of committing a crime in a court of law which I'll note the police is not. We have courts, judges, juries, and lawyers for a reason. You still have the right to not be physically violated unless you present an obvious threat. The possibility of having a weapon is not an obvious threat because again, anyone could have a weapon at any time, but the police don't go around tasering everyone suspected of committing a crime just because they could pull a weapon when they go to arrest the person. Police torture and fear of the police don't belong in a liberal (in the classical political science sense) democratic republic.
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as for the trespassing, I think you may be wrong here, if some one is on my property uninvited, and I ask them to leave, and they don’t, I will call the cops, and they will make him leave, by force if necessary, this is no different then what we had in the library, he was asked to leave and they had to resort to violence because asking did not help. If some one is on my property and I feel threatened, I can take most actions within reason, if that includes force legally I’ll be fine, granted I don’t grossly overstep.
As for the legal’s, yes this should be investigated, we still don’t know the start of the confrontation; we have a crappy video from a ways away. Maybe his falling was perceived as a threat, or he had one hand in his pocket and they tasered him because they thought he was going for a weapon and was just waiting for a cop to get close. Maybe he did have his hands and arms outstretched, and the cops could have easily apprehended him... we don’t know. All I want is the benefit of the doubt until the investigation is complete. to many people hate cops just cause there cops, yes there are bad cops, but there also allot of damn good ones and I don’t want them to be handy capped just because some whinny kid wants to throw a fit.