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Originally Posted by host
Deltona Couple, I can't avoid taking issue with nearly every sentiment that you posted. I cannot "love" or "support the troops" who were just "following orders" with regard to the war crimes described in the shocking LA Times reporting, just a few short months ago, about what happened in Vietnam.
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Host, as I am far too often having to say; since you do not know me personally, I find it difficult for you to label me as any one type of person by a single post. At NO POINT in any of my posts did I say that I agreed with military members taking the law into their own hands, or doing things as stated in your 'LA Times" article. I as SERIOUSLY offended that you would even THINK that. My reference is based on the average military person who is serving our country. Not the selected groups that can't handle military life, and therefore do whatever they CHOOSE to do.
I find it somewhat humorous that the article you referenced was all based on atrocities during the Vietnam war, not the current war. The military has changed much since that time. The people choosing to enlist are different, usually better educated than those of that time as well. I am not saying that the things that happened then are not happening now, but in todays military, they are MUCH lower in number of incidents, and if you read the news as often I you appear to, you would know that these things are being brought out to light, and those responsible ARE being punished for their crimes. This STILL does NOT suggest that we shouldn't support our military men and women! In the same sense you could by analogy say that if you found 3 or 4 bad apples on the tree, you should cut the whole dang tree down....it is just absurd to think that way. War sucks for everyone directly involved, plain and simple, it sucks. But that doesn't mean we should abandon ALL our troops support because of the way we despise our leader(s).
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US troops are members of a professional fighting force. IMO, we must give them credit and hold them responsible for discerning what is a bullshit, illegal, pre-emptive "war of choice", and what constitutes fighting a direct and imminent threat to our national security.
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YES! they are professionals, and we should hold them responsible for their actions, but again, our military would NOT be the force it is today if everyone took the time to question orders, or just to ignore them because we don't agree with them! The military is a VOLUNTARY entity as it is now, and we cannot afford the luxury of freedom of choice. If we do that, our military would be doomed for failure. History has shown that the country with the most conviction of self is the one that wins, NOT the one who decides as individuals what wars to fight, and what wars to stand back from.
You paint me by your post as a warmonger, and this is not true. You show me a world without wars, without conflict, without crime, and I will gladly lay down my arms and live peacefully. I don't WANT to go to war, I don't NEED to go to war, but if I am called to duty, I will serve my country, because I love my country, and I love everyone in it. I served so that you and yours CAN
choose to voice your opinion, you CAN
choose to have the liberties afforded to you.
You have those rights because men and women like myself are willing to go where needed, and when needed. The war in Iraq IS ridiculous, and yes, we should bring our troops home. We have no valid reason to be there, but REGARDLESS I will ALWAYS support our troops WHEREVER they go.
THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME A WARMONGER...It makes me a loving countryman and patriot!
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When it comes to who we vote for and the use of military force that we support, we are all in the same shoes as our soldiers. When we embrace the idea of reflexively letting them "off the hook", no matter what orders they decide to unquestioningly follow....issued by the flawed politicians who we have supported....isn't this all really a "game" of letting ourselves "off the hook"? It will only stop when each of us adult Americans, in uniform, or in civilian clothes, finally says ENOUGH !!
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You make a good point...if we don't like the way our country is being run, then VOTE. I am all for punishing those in uniform who break the law.... But the key word here is what orders you "unquestioningly" follow. I never said to follow all orders, regardless, I said that if the orders given are within the UCMJ, then as a member of the armed forces, you are REQUIRED to follow them. I didn't say 'blindly go forth and kill everyone, because that is what I was ordered to do'...you appear to be twisting my words and intent above.
As I have said to WillRavel before, I am not as eloquent or well worded as he is, and from your text, I am probably not as eloquent as you either, however I still believe in my convictions. I have seen things in combat that would probably make most of the people on this forum lose their lunch. I have seen first hand the way the news and media twist some things that happen to "sell" their news, while crucifying innocent men in uniform. It is unfortunate in all aspects.