jorgelito

First, the kid does not "look middle eastern". They did check IDs of people in the library. They even announced they were going to do so so he had warning. The charges of profiling and racism are ridiculous in this case, especially at UCLA where the majority student population is non-white. Profiling simply wouldn't make sense, nor would it be efficient. Besides, previous suspects in various crimes on campus have been white, Asian and black (if you're gonna profile, profile those groups but it's still inefficient). If he had his ID, this wouldn't have happened. If he had cooperated in the first place (with the CSOs then the UCPD) this wouldn't have happened. Someone refusing to cooperate certainly warrants alarm or suspicion. We require school IDs on campus for a reason. One of the rapes occured when a non-student got into one of the dorms (which require IDs for entry - apparently the person in front of them held the door open).

Secondly, Analog, I understand your point of the physical force, but I am trying to establish a back drop of why there is so much concern with IDs etc. (not necessarily justifying force, just showing why security is tight). The library is a high traffic area and I've bumped into many "unsavory characters" lurking around. The library is the highest incident of theft location. Asking for and checking IDs is very reasonable.

Whether or not excessive force was used will be borne out of the investigation. Witness accounts at this time are contradictory. SOme say he was leaving, others say he was resisting. In any event, it is very unwise to be uncooperative with the authorities.

On another note, what do you guys think the UCPD should have done? The kid refused to cooperate remember. In the given scenarios, it was instigated by the kid. If he was on his way out, then he shouldn't have freaked out when they escorted him (this is pretty standard, security always escorts you out). If he wasn't complying, then what should they have done? Drag him?

Pig, no I am definitely not advocating for carte blanche for the cops but at the same time, I am not automatically condemning the cops either. Someone else said it; the truth is somewhere in between, we have to wait and see. I don't think anyone is really advocating for tasering per se, but rather more saying that the kid was in the wrong in the first place. It's not so much that he didn't have his ID (and it's pretty dumb not to carry your ID on campus as you need it to do just about anything - swipe in the cafeteria, library access, fitness center, bus rides etc). And then to make matters worse, he was very uncooperative and that's not cool at all. I don't really know if taser was excessive (not without the complete facts), but my first reaction is yeah, WTF? sounds crazy. But then, what should the UCPD have done then? I would have thought that they would have just carried him out (but I guess I can see how that would pose a threat by kicking and screaming etc.

*add* You know, I think there are 2-3 other videos out there from different angles, but so far, I couldn't see what was happening when he said "Don't touch me!" and started screaming profanities. But I am guessing that he must have made some sort of resistance or combative action to warrant any type of force. I would have assumed that the cops escorted him out but the altercation seemed to have began with the whole "Don't touch me!" screeaming profanities sequence.

Any TFPr's have police or security experience that can shed some light on procedure or the law in terms of defining assault or resistance etc? I thought that screaming profanities at a cop was considered assault maybe? (or something like that). In other words, there has to be a trigger for the tasering, it can't be just out of the blue. I think one of the cops mentioned that they tasered because they didn't want to use a baton.

*add* I just watched the video again. It sounds like after he started screaming "don't touch me!" the cops reply "stand up". I'm guessing he must have sat right down or something like that which means he wasn't leaving or complying anymore. The kid then shouts some profanities at the cops and in a calm voice delivers a monologue. All throughout, the kid does not cooperate at all. He claims he will leave but then just sits there and tells the cops to "fuck off" or "you motherfuckers". In the end, they had to drag him out (he still wasn't cooperating). Maybe they just should have done that in the first place.

Damn, I wish we had the other videos to see. My friends said it was a complete circus at the library. The campus is pretty divided now.