Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Agreed
|
Maturity alert! How can we continue partison bickering when people act li9ke adults and agree from time to time!?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Your exact words in the post I responded to stated, "In the wake of World War II". The jewish state was created by UN mandate in 1948/49.
|
Hahaha, you got me there. I goofed. It was the UN that actually created the Jewish state, I got confused.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
What about this? It agrees with what I said. That since 1949 Israel has recieved 74 Billion in aid. And as it goes I was wrong, since most of our dealings with Israel are in the form of loans it doesn't count as foreign aid, so looking around the web it appears Israel rakes in about 3 billion dollars in aid for the coming year of 2007.
|
The question still remains: why? If they are able to pay us back so easily, then why do we give them so much?
[QUOTE=Mojo_PeiPei]Israel created Hezbollah... Right. It had nothing to do with say the fractured Lebanese government and civil war, coupled with destabilization by the PLO, and the countering of foreign involvement from Syria.[/QUOPTE]
Syria had nothing to do with the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, and it definately had nothing to do with the thousands left dead in Lebanon, most of which were civilians that had little or nothing to do with the Hezbollah. I suppose you can argue from a different perspective about Israel creating the Hezbollah, but Israel had to know that invading and occupying a forieng land would ahve consequences. It's like the US in Iraq. The only insurgency in Iraq before 2003 was the growing rebelion against Saddam. Now there is a very strong resistence force there that formed as a direct result of US action. I'd go as far as saying that Israel is responsible for the Hezbollah in the same way that the US is responsible for the insurgency in Iraq.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
States that Israel had 44 civilian deaths and 1500 wounded from Hezbollah rocket attacks. I see no problem with the Lebanese casualties, as Hezbollah is an actor of the state, the Lebanese government did nothing to curb their actions such as the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, nor stop the firing of rockets, Israel had every right and violated no law with their actions.
|
The Lebanese government is not completly run by the Hezbollah, as a matter of fact, their influence had been steadily dropping for the past 6 years. Imagine that the US was attacked because of the democrats, and the attackers killed everyone stating that we have a Democrat government. It doesn't really work that way. The Hezbollah influence on government before the 2006 conflidt was negligable.
The thing is: Hezbollah was and is a terrorist organzation working outside of the jurisdiction of the legitimate Lebanese government. Their actions are not the actions of the Lebanese people. So when the Hezbollah attacks Israel, then Israel strikes back at Lebanon as a nation...that's a mistake at best. It would be like the US attacking the whole of Iraq because of the insurgency.
Israel killed a lot of civilians that had nothing to do with the conflict. Israel invaded Lebanon. Israel blocaded Lebanon by sea. Israel even created one of the largest eco-disastors in the history of the ME when they hit a power plant spilling 15 tons of oil into the Mediterranean. The blocade made it impossible for relief efforts.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
No life is more important to me then another, I just don't believe in faulting a nation for taking actions to do its most basic and fundamental job, protecting its citizens.
|
Just so we're clear, the order of events is as follows:
1) Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah for the purpous of prisoner exchange.
2) Israel attacks Lebanon with missiles, tanks, ground troops.
3) Hezbollah starts firing missiles into Israel.
If Israel wanted to protect it's cizitens, they wouldn't have all out attacked Lebanon, where they knew they'd get fired upon by Hezbollah that were, up until the attack and invasion, inactive.
Or they could just leave the Shebaa Farms.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
How is it manifest destiny? Granted you have the fringe people who go in an build settlements in various parts of Palestine, I'm not defending them, I don't defend any Israeli action past or present to defend those settlers. Again what I do defend is Israel occupying Gaza/West Bank/wherever as a measure to curb Palestinian violence following two Intifada's. Palestine can not now, nor have they ever in the past been able to curb the "radical" terrorist elements; the fact that they elect Hamas into power is something brought on themselves. I don't put defensive occupation into a category which violates human rights, what about the rights of Israeli citizens, nobody seems to be doing much for them in regards to the Palestinian terrorism; however I should mention as an aside I recognize the fact that they are entwined in a vicious cycle of violence.
|
What right did the UN have to create an Israeli state where people already lived? I've been trying to get an answer for this for a long time. The Ottoman Empire was not a member of the UN. The Palestinians had no interest at the time of joining the UN. The UN ahd no real claim on the land, as WWII was a war to stop German, Italian and Japanese aggression. The area probably would have developed into a Palestinian state, let's call it Palestine, and they would have become another country in the Middle East. Why did the UN have the power to declair a state like that?