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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
.To start in your post you put forth what I have dubbed the "Magically appearing jew theory". Zionism started in the 19th century, on top of that Jews have always lived in the land of Palestine, thousands of them. To boot, Palestine never existed as a sovereign nation, and even more problems with the local arab population stems from the British protectorate that was established in the region effectively miffing the borders with Jordan and all that jazz.
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I'm sorry you are only able to read what you want. That must be a terrible afffliction. 1) Nevfer did I say that the Palestinians had their own country. I was clear that they were formerly members of the Ottoman Empire, and were on their own. The land was occupied by Pelstinians, though, be they Jewish, Christian, or vastly Muslim. Jews have not always lived in the land of Palestine. They moved there after the Exodus, if you belive in that sort of thing. Palestinian is the name given to the peoples that lived in the area now called Israel. I'd call them Jewish Palestinains, which do exist.
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
After WWII the UN, not the league of Nations, went into deal with the escalating tensions between the populations of jews (old and new) and arabs, they came up with two ideas, partition or single state; it memory serves the palestinan Arabs refused either idea, at which point the partition was put into effect. Once the Jews declared their independence as a sovereign nation state, they were invaded by several neighboring Arab countries, America recognized the infant Jewish state, they repelled the invaders and took gains. The Palestinians not being a sovereign nation were screwed, they just tried to eradicate the Jewish state and lost, bad. The rest from there is history, filled with four more conflicts with Israel and it's Arab neighbors.
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It started in 1922, with the League of Nations. Are you familiar with the Palestine Mandate?
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
As far as aid for ISrael goes, yes they are our biggest recipient in foreign aid, all of which is in loan form and defense contracts for American products; as an aside Israel is the only nation to have never defaulted on a loan from us. The amount of aid given to Israel is no where near the ballpark of 70 trillion, I don't even believe it is close to 70 BILLION annually, it is more around 20 Billion (from what I've heard more like 16 billion). The second biggest recipient of American aid is Egypt, a country that is at peace with Israel.
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http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
I don't see how Israel inflames situations. Their mere existence is the problem, I don't see how it is their fault when Hezbollah a terrorist organization fucks with state sovereignty, effectively fucking Lebanon just like the PLO did in the 70's/80's. You bring up the constant condemnation of Israel, especially how it pertains to the UN, well if you pay any attention all vetoed motions from the UN are horribly one sided in favor of the Arabs with pretty much zero culpability towards Palestinian/Arab actions. You talk about the Wall that was constructed (which was found illegal by the Israeli SC, don't know the status of it atm) but your comment about that sparking Palestinian suicide bombings is uneqivocally(sp) wrong, if you have paid any type of attention to the situation you would notice a ginourmous decrease in Palestinian suicide activity, the wall has worked superbly.
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Israel created the Hezbollah when they invaded Lebanon just before I was born. Israel still holds the Shebaa Farms to this day. In the most current micro war/invasion of Lebanon goes, Hezbollah had no confirmed kills in Israel. Israel killed thousands of Labanese (only a few hundred confirmed as Hezbollah) and displaced millions. That's what I mean when I say Israel inflames situations.
As for the wall that has been condemned by international courts as a human rights violation, yes, they have decreased sucide bombings. You know what else would stop suicide bombings? Genocide. So why isn't genocide a viable solution? It's morally reprehensable and a crime against humanity. You can't do whatever you want to decrease crime. The wall is an illegal imprisonment of the Palestinain people in their own land by the occupying Israeli government. Do you know how many people have died because of those walls? No? I wonder why not. Could it be that an Israeli life is more important that a Palestinain life to you?
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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Israel is not going anywhere, they have rights as a sovereign nation. They have the responsiblity of providing for the common defence of their people, when terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, the PLO, Hamas act, especially in an extra-national sense, Israel has every right to go gangbusters on the sovereign nations (or in the historical case of Palestine having not been a sovereign nation until recently) that aggress towards them.
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Israel is an occupying force in what should have been Palestine. Their rights are built upon more of the bullshit manifest destiny attitude of western governments who figured that the Palestinains wouldn't care if their land was given to someone else. It's absurd. Israel should have no rights as a nation because it shouldn't exist. Let them find their own land that's not already occupied by a population and claim it as their own. Maybe I should move into your living room and claim it as my own becuase you happen to be on my holy land.