Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Faith and Politics: Evangelical Support for Israel

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-15-2006, 11:08 AM

Will a few things, first and most important is the complete lack of accuracy of your post, and it's less then even keeled nature.

To start in your post you put forth what I have dubbed the "Magically appearing jew theory". Zionism started in the 19th century, on top of that Jews have always lived in the land of Palestine, thousands of them. To boot, Palestine never existed as a sovereign nation, and even more problems with the local arab population stems from the British protectorate that was established in the region effectively miffing the borders with Jordan and all that jazz.

After WWII the UN, not the league of Nations, went into deal with the escalating tensions between the populations of jews (old and new) and arabs, they came up with two ideas, partition or single state; it memory serves the palestinan Arabs refused either idea, at which point the partition was put into effect. Once the Jews declared their independence as a sovereign nation state, they were invaded by several neighboring Arab countries, America recognized the infant Jewish state, they repelled the invaders and took gains. The Palestinians not being a sovereign nation were screwed, they just tried to eradicate the Jewish state and lost, bad. The rest from there is history, filled with four more conflicts with Israel and it's Arab neighbors.

Building off of that more accurate "overview" of the Jewish states foundation we need to analyze the cold war, and how the MIddle East was a effectively a satellite war between the two super powers where America was behind Israel and Russia backed the Arabs up until Sadat signed up with America and recognized Israel (later getting him killed), and later Jordan.

As far as aid for ISrael goes, yes they are our biggest recipient in foreign aid, all of which is in loan form and defense contracts for American products; as an aside Israel is the only nation to have never defaulted on a loan from us. The amount of aid given to Israel is no where near the ballpark of 70 trillion, I don't even believe it is close to 70 BILLION annually, it is more around 20 Billion (from what I've heard more like 16 billion). The second biggest recipient of American aid is Egypt, a country that is at peace with Israel.

I don't see how Israel inflames situations. Their mere existence is the problem, I don't see how it is their fault when Hezbollah a terrorist organization fucks with state sovereignty, effectively fucking Lebanon just like the PLO did in the 70's/80's. You bring up the constant condemnation of Israel, especially how it pertains to the UN, well if you pay any attention all vetoed motions from the UN are horribly one sided in favor of the Arabs with pretty much zero culpability towards Palestinian/Arab actions. You talk about the Wall that was constructed (which was found illegal by the Israeli SC, don't know the status of it atm) but your comment about that sparking Palestinian suicide bombings is uneqivocally(sp) wrong, if you have paid any type of attention to the situation you would notice a ginourmous decrease in Palestinian suicide activity, the wall has worked superbly.

Israel is not going anywhere, they have rights as a sovereign nation. They have the responsiblity of providing for the common defence of their people, when terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, the PLO, Hamas act, especially in an extra-national sense, Israel has every right to go gangbusters on the sovereign nations (or in the historical case of Palestine having not been a sovereign nation until recently) that aggress towards them.

More to come later.

11-15-2006, 11:08 AM	#26 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Will a few things, first and most important is the complete lack of accuracy of your post, and it's less then even keeled nature. To start in your post you put forth what I have dubbed the "Magically appearing jew theory". Zionism started in the 19th century, on top of that Jews have always lived in the land of Palestine, thousands of them. To boot, Palestine never existed as a sovereign nation, and even more problems with the local arab population stems from the British protectorate that was established in the region effectively miffing the borders with Jordan and all that jazz. After WWII the UN, not the league of Nations, went into deal with the escalating tensions between the populations of jews (old and new) and arabs, they came up with two ideas, partition or single state; it memory serves the palestinan Arabs refused either idea, at which point the partition was put into effect. Once the Jews declared their independence as a sovereign nation state, they were invaded by several neighboring Arab countries, America recognized the infant Jewish state, they repelled the invaders and took gains. The Palestinians not being a sovereign nation were screwed, they just tried to eradicate the Jewish state and lost, bad. The rest from there is history, filled with four more conflicts with Israel and it's Arab neighbors. Building off of that more accurate "overview" of the Jewish states foundation we need to analyze the cold war, and how the MIddle East was a effectively a satellite war between the two super powers where America was behind Israel and Russia backed the Arabs up until Sadat signed up with America and recognized Israel (later getting him killed), and later Jordan. As far as aid for ISrael goes, yes they are our biggest recipient in foreign aid, all of which is in loan form and defense contracts for American products; as an aside Israel is the only nation to have never defaulted on a loan from us. The amount of aid given to Israel is no where near the ballpark of 70 trillion, I don't even believe it is close to 70 BILLION annually, it is more around 20 Billion (from what I've heard more like 16 billion). The second biggest recipient of American aid is Egypt, a country that is at peace with Israel. I don't see how Israel inflames situations. Their mere existence is the problem, I don't see how it is their fault when Hezbollah a terrorist organization fucks with state sovereignty, effectively fucking Lebanon just like the PLO did in the 70's/80's. You bring up the constant condemnation of Israel, especially how it pertains to the UN, well if you pay any attention all vetoed motions from the UN are horribly one sided in favor of the Arabs with pretty much zero culpability towards Palestinian/Arab actions. You talk about the Wall that was constructed (which was found illegal by the Israeli SC, don't know the status of it atm) but your comment about that sparking Palestinian suicide bombings is uneqivocally(sp) wrong, if you have paid any type of attention to the situation you would notice a ginourmous decrease in Palestinian suicide activity, the wall has worked superbly. Israel is not going anywhere, they have rights as a sovereign nation. They have the responsiblity of providing for the common defence of their people, when terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, the PLO, Hamas act, especially in an extra-national sense, Israel has every right to go gangbusters on the sovereign nations (or in the historical case of Palestine having not been a sovereign nation until recently) that aggress towards them. More to come later. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.