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Originally Posted by willravel
That sounds really cool in movies, but it has no real life meaning. Again (and again and again), they aren't pulling the trigger. You are. They are tempting you to take their life, sure, but it's not like you don't have a choice. YOU pull the trigger. You always have a choice, and it's in that choice that you either take responsibility for their life or not. You make it seem as if you lose the ability to control yourself if threatened. If that's the case, you have no business with a weapon. If that's not the case, you're wrong and have proven my point.
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That is how you see it. I do not. You have as much of a chance of convincing me that your view is correct as I do of convincing you that mine is correct.
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Originally Posted by willravel
Not hardly. You made a Rambo argument (the "don't fuck with me or I'll go midevil" argument), then you repeated it.
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Nothing 'rambo' about it. It's just the way it is. I'm not a tough talk, no walk kind of person. I mean exactly what I say, when I say it.
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Originally Posted by willravel
dksuddeth, baring military service, you'll never be in a shootout. I can say that with certianty.
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You can see in to the future? Never say that you're certain about anything but your own eventual death (unless you're immortal) and that you'll pay taxes.
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Originally Posted by willravel
The "but what if" arguments are so statistically improbable that they become laughable, espically those of the armed-home-invasion-when-you're-home or massive-drawn-out police/well-armed-criminal-shootout persuasion. You won't need your gun. I wouldn't need a gun if I had one. Ch'i wouldn't need a gun if he had one. Because you'll never need your gun, you'll want to use it to excuse your having it. That's kinda dangerous. Combine that with the Rambo mentality, and you've got a recipe for 'accedenal death', 'involuntary manslaughter', or 'criminal neglegence'.
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I'm sure that every unarmed victim of violent crime would argue that point with you.
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Originally Posted by shakran
couple of problems here. First off, eliminate those problems. Go learn how to fight. Second, if you're getting the crap kicked out of you by a guy who has no weapon, and you shoot him, you WILL go to jail, and it probably will be for a very long time. Are you willing to take that risk?
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This is not true. There are many cases where an unarmed attacker has been shot/killed and no charges were filed against the shooter. Now, in some states in this country, what you say would hold true, but these are some of the worst states when it concerns crime anyway because they do everything possible to keep their citizens from carrying.
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Originally Posted by shakran
I don't think Jesus would advocate that everyone carry a gun.
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Jesus, or God, wanted everyone to be able to defend themselves. "And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."
..........Luke 22:36
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Originally Posted by shakran
I'd like to see some stats for that last sentence please. Also I'd like you to compare apples to apples here. The DEATHS from defensive use of guns as compared to the deaths that happen by criminal use of guns. No trying to exclude crooks who can't shoot. I feel I must point out that we WILL catch you when you try to jimmy with the statistical language.
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If I remember correctly, the 30k+ gun death stat includes defensive uses as well, so it would be difficult to post the two seperate stats up here. Maybe someone has researched enough to come up with two different stats. I don't know. In the link below, there is a study that 'estimates' about 2.5 million defensive uses a year, with a gun, but doesn't denote how many are deadly uses or deterrent uses.
I've posted this link before, but there is a new one up since then. I encourage everyone to read it.
http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...s4-1-Print.pdf
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Originally Posted by shakran
And yes, the gun is quite relevant. You don't hear about a whole lot of drive by stabbings. The gun is relevant because it allows you to kill from a distance. The crook can be 10 feet away and still kill me. I'm not comfortable letting a potential enemy (or ally who's a crappy shot) get hold of a weapon that can kill from far enough away that I don't have a chance of stopping it.
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If there is another way to stop criminals from having guns, other than locking them away for life, I'd love to hear it. So far, no law ever written has accomplished this feat. So when the criminal is shooting at you from a distance, I fail to see how any other defensive action is going to help other than shooting back.