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Originally Posted by filtherton
There are still golf clubs that refuse to allow female members, discrimination be damned.
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Very true.
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It's completely tangential to reality. You're not opening a club, these bans(at least in my city) don't apply to private clubs anyway. You're going awfully far out on a limb to prove a point that's irrelevant.
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No, I'm going to a point that is probably going to become reality in many cities.
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A better hypothetical experiment would be for me to ask you if you support lifting smoking bans in hospitals. They are private businesses too. The people who got to them definitely have a choice about where to go, or whether to go.
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No, there are certain industries that smoking up until recently has always been permitted: Bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, hotels. Those, I feel are the acceptable places to smoke in. Places of public health, stores, etc. no.
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Actually, i wouldn't defend your rights because this isn't a matter of rights inasmuch as it doesn't concern actual rights. I'd defend your rights if they were actually trying to take them away. This issue isn't really a big deal to me either way, though i prefer the bans.
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Why isn't it my "right" to open a private club where I want to cater a population that doesn't discriminate in any way...... just states that if you enter you must accept the fact people will be smoking, cigarettes, cigars, pipes.
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All this talk of rights and yet you fail to realize that a lack of smoking bans deprives the general populace of the "right" to go to a bar without having to deal with cigarette smoke.
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And you have the right NOT to go there and to find one that doesn't have smoking. Eventually if the non-smoking bars and establishments start doing better business, then the smoking establishments will turn non-smoking to make money.
You are taking away choice because YOU want what you want and refuse to allow choice.
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Well, you don't like it you can always move, right? Or try and organize your efforts, participate in the democratic process, vote for candidates who've taken a lot of money from big tobacco, start a petition. Certainly complaining about the loss of privileges that you may or may not even be willing to actually fight for on the internet won't really help.
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I'm just trying to have a discussion and show a point of view. This interests me, because I see these people getting ready for their next target, their next power play.
Like I said either make it illegal, stop taxing it then tell us where we can smoke, or allow the above business owners the right to decide what they feel is in their best interest.
I used to have immense respect for you, Filtherton, you always had a voice of reason... but not so much on this issue.
On a personal note: 1) I promised my son I'd quit for his birthday Dec. 8th ( hopefully I do) and 2) whether this was about smoking or soda drinking or coffee or anything else.... I'd still be as adamnant as I am. Because I believe in the rights of people and that society grows better with freedoms and decisions that are open than to have decisions dictated and freedoms taken away.
But that's just me.