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my definition of lie fits the verb intransitive (I believe thats verb intransitive at least...) Is it such a "bizaro" definition now that I'm using your own dictionary?
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Sure, because that's a lot closer to what I've been saying. By that definition, I've not been lying because when I say that I'm a Christian, that is a true statement. What I think is bizarro is your making a lie something that occurs in the listener's mind rather than an aspect of the speaker's words and intent.
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Usually I won't make fun of peoples spelling or words (made up as they are) as long as I understand them and I feel like most people understand it, or at least the people I think that matter.
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Good for you. Neither do I.
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Quoting me on "lier" when you know what I mean, they know what I mean, and I know what I mean, trying to use a typo to discredit me is childish.
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I was disagreeing with your meaning of the word. I didn't mock the spelling.
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Wanting respect for your beliefs by acting childish is not a good way to get it.
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Is this a common tactic of yours, name-calling in a debate?
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I've a feeling your giving a real world example, if not describing yourself, and this is going to go on about what exactly the prophecies of a messiah really meant. I hate to say it... but I don't actually care.
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It was a hypothetical. That's not anywhere close to my belief system.
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I don't really care if you call yourself a Christian,
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Really? You seem to care enough to keep posting in this thread and telling me I'm not a Christian.
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just that you believe in defining a word in a way you want to and not clarifying is your right.
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Well, I've never said that now, have I? You keep saying that and attributing it to me, but at no point did it actually become what I've said.
Where was I unclear about my religious beliefs?
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Speak as the other person understands, or at least by a dictionary definition that they can look up later when they don't understand you.
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I notice you disregarded all of my sources that list definitions of "Christian."
Wikipedia: A Christian is a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, referred to as Christ.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Chris‧tian /ˈkrɪstʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kris-chuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.
2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ: Spain is a Christian country.
3. of or pertaining to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades.
4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity.
5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial.
6. human; not brutal; humane: Such behavior isn't Christian.
–noun
7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.
8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian.
9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren.
10. the hero of Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress.
11. a male given name.
American Heritage Dictionary:
Chris·tian (krschn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "Christian" [P]
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.
Religious Tolerance:
There are probably thousands of different definitions of the word "Christian." We have chosen the same inclusive definition as is used by public opinion pollsters and government census offices: A "Christian" includes any group or individual who seriously, devoutly, prayerfully describes themselves as Christian. Under this definition, Christianity includes: Roman Catholics, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, United Church members, even a small minority of Unitarian Universalists, etc.
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Unless you start representing the faith badly and it affects the esteem of my friends that are Christian, call Christianity what you want, call yourself a Christian, until other people start taking your definition seriously, and the definition of Christianity as I know it shifts into that of "orthodox christianity."
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Why would my using a slightly different definition of "Christian" hurt the self esteem of anybody? I'd like to note at this point that I've been saying all along that I'm not defining what it means to be a Christian for anybody but myself.
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Well, thats the evolution of language, and it's whats gonna happen eventually, probably, but it's generally a good thing to slow it down. Else you get situation when two people are saying the same word but meaning completely different things.
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If meanings are slightly different, as is very common, people will likely have no problem communicating.
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One of few spiritual places I feel comfortable in is the local Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, and the day its a Christian organization, or rather part of one is the day I will no longer feel comfortable there. On that same day, I've a good number of people I know that won't have a place to go to to comfortably express their spirituality anymore.
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I agree on all points. I'd like to point out at this point that I haven't said that the UUA is a "Christian Organization", only that there are Unitarian Christians, and that UUA is partly Christian, which a quick glance at their official web site's reference to Jesus and whether UUAs are Christians will confirm.
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When you misrepresent that organization, I do care. Well, thats been fixed. You didn't "say that" even though thats what it says is that the UUA is a Christian. A better use of semantics would be you didn't "mean that" but I think everyone got the point, once I pointed out that the UUA is not a Christian organization. Before that, I'm not so sure as the original poster who may or may not have heard to of the UUA, would expect a UUA fellowship to be teaching from the bible and only the bible.
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I haven't misrepresented my church (a Unitarian Universalist Church) or religious organization (UUA) in any way. I've not said that they are a Christian organization--this was something you've been attributing to me repeatedly which I have not said. For the record, I said that there are Christian Unitarians (confirmed by my link above) and that the UUA is a partly Christian organization (also confirmed by my link above).
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Misrepresenting Baptist beliefs (namely, that Baptists don't think anyone but a baptist is Christian) affects me in the way that I don't like seeing lies perpetuate.
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I have to ask, are you just making this stuff up? This is the second or third time you've accused me of this, and I have not said anything anywhere close to that.
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(looking at any readers, the very very patient readers...) I'm doing my best to be through with this. I'm sorry. This is tempting me too much, I tend to treat the contrary with contrariness, in hopes that one day the contrary realize they don't want to be treated this way, so don't treat others this way.
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Textbook irony there. Oh, to be specific, I mean dramatic or situational irony, not verbal irony.
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You sound like the kind of person that doesn't like stepping into traditional churches,
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I was raised Catholic, attending Sunday Mass for most of my first 18 years. I briefly attended a Metropolitan Community Church, which is a conservative Protestant church, and eventually found the UUA to be the best fit for my spiritual beliefs. Make of that what you will.
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or talking to people that believe your going to hell.
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Duh.
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You sure don't seem to like to be told your not a Christian.
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Does the word "Duh" mean anything to you?
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Then again, you did say that baptists don't think catholics are christians...
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Nope. Never said that. I think maybe you repeated this statement (I won't call it a lie, even though it's a false statement) three or four times now, despite my never having said what you keep attributing to me.
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Do remember, majority doesn't mean 50%+, it can mean 30% when noone else agrees to anything at all.
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No. A majority is more than half. The largest proportion when there is no majority is a plurality.
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Again, on a different note
"There are a lot of Christians out there who believe that their particular brand of Christianity is the one true one. I don't happen to believe that.."
I'm glad you don't think a lot of Christians are right. Honestly, it brightens my
day. (/sarcasm)
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Well, that's either a bad misunderstanding of what I wrote or a distortion. You might want to consider not stating what my beliefs are. You're doing a very poor job of it.
"There are a lot of Christians out there who believe that their particular brand of Christianity is the one true one. I don't happen to believe that." "That" refers to a belief that one's religious belief system is the one and only true belief system, and I do not believe that mine is the one and only true one. I don't think I or anybody has enough information to truly know one way or the other whether there even is any one true path to salvation, and if there is, which one it is, and I certainly don't have the knowledge or authority to impose my ideas on anybody else.
I snipped out a lot of the detailed discussion of my examples because the exact nature of those wasn't the point. The point was that there are many elements that constitute what it means to be a Christian, and it's very common to dispute the nature of those elements, but having a dispute does not mean that group A is Christian and group B is not.
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I've already stated that I don't agree with you calling yourself a Christian, and why. Provide an argument with why my "why" is wrong, then I'll call you a Christian.
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I fit the definition cited for every neutral source I cited, and if you look at the Religious Tolerance introduction there, the definition used by the US census and polling professionals. Let's use your criteria:
"Your more than welcome to dispute why your definition of Christian is better, but unless it encompasses most of the people describing themselves as Christians, and not a good deal of people that don't describe themselves as Christians"
The definition I use when I identify myself as Christian "encompasses most of the people describing themselves as Christians and not a good deal of people that don't describe themselves as Christians."
In fact, my definition,
by your stated criteria is a better one because it encompasses
very nearly all of the people describing themselves as Christians and
none of the people that don't. I not only meet your criteria, I exceed them and even approach 100% on both.
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Sure, you have the right to believe something wrong, and to say something wrong, and to be called on it at every opportunity.
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Sure. I'm not wrong when I call myself a Christian, though. I am both correct and honest when I say that.
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You've already stated or at least it appeared to state, because stating isn't saying anymore,
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I assume you're attributing this to me again? When I object to you attributing things to me that I did not say, that's because I didn't say them, and the way you're presenting them is either distorted or an outright invention.
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you can define being a Christian as you want, anyone who wants to say "I'm a Christian" is a Christian now, as everyone must respect everyone else's belief of what the definition of a Christian is.
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Close, but not quite. I believe that people should be free to interpret what it means to be a Christian in their own lives, and that I don't have the right to impose on them my definition of what it means to be a Christian.
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Furthermore, you have the right to say "oh, you agree with Jesus and how he treats people? Your a Christian!"
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Nope, never said this, and it is in fact the opposite of my core belief system. This is just another of your restatements of things you've attributed to me.
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and when they contradict your definition of what a Christian is, they have to respect your right to call them a Christian.
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Nope. Again, this would be the opposite of my belief system, and again, it's something you attributed to me that I did not say.
It's easy to knock down those straw men after you set them up, isn't it?
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I don't feel like explaining the concept of objective morality to you at the moment, but I recommend you look into it.
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No need. I understand objective morality and don't believe there is such a thing.
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Ever think you going "I'm a Christian" on the side of the street could be overheard by a stranger, who lives in a very catholic community and is just visiting? They go back home, research into Christianity by visiting the local Christians, which in this case are Catholics, and end up tithing 10% of his income for the rest of his/her life?
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No, that had never occurred to me.
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But you don't care about what stranger's think or hear. Is that what you said?
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For the most part. I think we owe others basic respect and courtesy in a public place, but otherwise, no, I don't care if strangers misinterpret what I say.
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It appears you'll be satisfied when I call you a Christian simply because you want to be called a Christian. When I call anyone a Christian that wants to be called a Christian.
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No. I would appreciate it if you'd stop saying I'm not a Christian, though.
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No. Anyone who emulates the way Jesus treated other people because they think it's the right way to treat people does not suddenly earn the right to be called a Christian, nor should they be called a Christian. You could teach Christianity without mentioning Jesus's name then.
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Have I advocated doing that? No, this is another straw man you've set up for yourself.
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Anyways, on an objective note...
Anyone else think its funny that the theist posting in the thread titled
"'Why do atheists get so outspoken and militant?' In this thread I do just that."
Is getting huffy when people disagree with him?
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If you are referring to me, I'm a she, and I'm pretty sure that, with the exception of the Ladies Lounge, anybody is allowed to post in any thread available to them. This includes Christians posting in a thread about atheism and morality.
I responded because it was a thread regarding the relationship of religious belief to morality, and I had a religious viewpoint to share. You'll notice I wasn't antagonistic and didn't provoke a negative reaction in anybody but you, when you took it upon yourself to attempt to prove to . . . whoever that I'm not a Christian.
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Admittedly, telling someone they're not Christian is a touchy subject,
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I refer you to my previous "Duh."
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but if I were a theist posting in a thread thats going to attract militant outspoken atheists to a common cause, being militant and outspoken about atheism, I wouldn't even state what I believe unless I really really couldn't help it. Kind of like not antagonizing the people who are pissed off and have guns (logic, I'm looking at you.)
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Is agreeing with much of what the OP said being antagonistic? This is a discussion board. We post topics of discussion to get differing viewpoints.