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Originally Posted by pan6467
FoolThemAll you can't win you know. They have already decided what is "in the public's best interest" and demand government do something.
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Don't be dense, i've repeatedly said that these bans have a large amount of support. This is actually a case of the public deciding what is in it's best interest. It's a shame you find yourself on the losing side of this position, but thems the breaks. Now i guess you know how the public urinators feel.
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They refuse to see that they are taking away rights, they refuse to even debate civilly, they want it all.
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Pan, these aren't rights. You should stop calling them rights. Especially since you can't back up your assertion that these are rights. And as far as civility goes, you're the only one in this thread who resorted to the text equivalent of yelling.
As long as we're talking about made-up rights, let me be the first to claim that every person has the right to spend an evening at a bar without smelling like smoke; smokers want to take away that right; smokers just want to exert power over others; this is the beginning of the end of all freedom everywhere.
See how ridiculous that is?
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So when the smoking is a dead issue and these power hungry hate filled people decide they need to control something else.... they know exactly how to get the rights taken away.
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Get over yourself. Smoking bans are not the beginning of the descent into totalitarianism. That's ridiculous. You do your position no service when you say things that make you come across as hysterical.
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Oh yeah and by the way Shakran I guess you must have missed the part where I stated it is getting to the point I have to smoke in my car.
Good you say?
Yeah, except then I have my son, so he has to walk to the car with me, and if he stands outside by himself while I smoke, I get into trouble, if I put him in the car while I smoke it's child endangering...... so exactly where am I to smoke?
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I smoke outside all the time. Guess what, i'm fine. I like it, even when it's 25 degrees F. I would suggest that you smoke outside.
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Waiting........ 3.....2.....1...... your answer will prove beyond doubt this debate is solely about power over others and not, not smoking...... unless of course you change the hardline stance you have had this whole thread, in which case.....
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I'm thinking more and more that this debate is about people rationalizing their disgust with inconvenient laws by coming up with really shaky, inconsistent arguments as to why those laws are bad.
For instance you have the "These laws violate my rights" argument, which completely ignores the fact that unless you make up your own definition of the word right you actually have no right to smoke. No, it's not like censorship because the constitution actually mentions something about freedom of speech; it doesn't mention tobacco products.
There's also the "business owners should be able to do whatever they want" argument, which is also ridiculous. Has anyone heard of regulatory agencies? The government? They're the people who tell businesses what they can't do and they've been doing it for a long time. It's nothing new, and to claim that this instance of regulation is somehow more heinous or "wrong" than every other instance smacks of inconsistency.
There's the "if you don't like smoke why don't you go somewhere else" argument to which it is way too easy to respond "if you don't like smoking bans why don't you move to somewhere where they don't have them". Both statements are really nothing more than a fancy way of saying "Fuck you". Really, though, it's not that simple. Like i said above, there weren't any smoke-free bars in my city before the ban, i couldn't simply "go somewhere else" unless that somewhere else was to the liquor store and then home. This never seems to get addressed when i bring it up, though.