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Originally Posted by mixedmedia
Well, I'm sorry, KM. I don't mean to harangue you about it. I'm just curious is all. From what I can tell you are an intelligent and thoughtful person and I could care less what you do or don't believe. Just as with the atheists in my family - it never enters my mind in reference to how I feel about them. We rarely talk about it nor do I need to talk to them about it. I was there for the progression and I understand how their atheism came about. It's not that I question atheism as a concept, not at all, I question it much less than I do most established religions. I guess I should just accept the obvious here: that the popular connotation of the word faith, makes the word anathema to those who have rejected this popular idea of faith (even though, personally, I think the word faith, in a sense is applicable to atheism). At any rate, I don't mean to be annoying. But it's been known to happen...
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I assure you, I have taken nothing that has been said in this thread (by anybody) personally. I don't think you have deliberately moved discussions to semantic topics. Personally, I think I have made very compelling arguments and you have had little choice by playing Devil's Advocate in scrutinizing the meaning of our terms. I just don't find semantic arguments interesting since the meaning we attribute to words are entirely arbitrary.
As a side note, the etymology of metaphysics comes from a chapter of a book that Aristotle wrote and literally means "after physics." It was a chapter that came after the chapter about physics and he titled it as such so that the reader can know that he was no longer talking about the real world and is moving onto the topic of philosophical bullshit...
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And perhaps metaphysical is not the right word, but in essence I mean a unifying order in the universe that has purpose, rather than an arbitrary gathering of space, matter and circumstances. I guess...something like that.
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Perhaps this is the crux of the discussion here. It may be that religious people want to believe in something that give them "purpose" in life, whereas atheists don't need one beyond what they make for themselves. Indeed, I find it curious that some people say that religion does just this for them since I see no real purpose given by any religious doctorine. They appear as mysterious and unanswering of that question as anything else. The Bible, for instance, only says that your life has a purpose but fails to mention what that purpose is. Perhaps merely the reassurance of one is enough, even if what that purpose is remains unsaid, where atheism doesn't even do that much. However, the idea that these people can't give themselves a purpose in life, even if they don't have to specify what that purpose is, may be the source of
ustwo's condescension...
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Originally Posted by Leto
I think you are misguided Chalatan, and I would debate with you on this matter for ever. Your atheisim IS faith based...
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Well, it's based on the same faith that I have that if I let go of my glass of coke, it will fall. In some sense, I do have faith in this idea. In another sense, it doesn't take a leap faith to see that this is true, regardless of your religion or lack thereof. I think it is the latter of which Charlatan speaks, rather than the former...
This tempts me to start another thread on the difference between the Christian worldview and the atheist one. I choose Christianity, in particular, because it is the religion I know best. It's hard for me to talk about religion, in general, if I don't really know the other ones...