Let's examine your "debunking" claim:
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp
Ironicly I was thinking the same thing today.
Oh btw living in Illinois the richest counties I'm aware of voted for Bush and tend to vote straight Republican. No idea where this would be going as voting and IQ is not a state wide thing. I'd be happy, no elated if those who didn't graduate highschool were not allowed to vote, and it wouldn't be because Democrats would win 
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Oh and I found this
http://sq.4mg.com/IQpolitics.htm
Which uses ACT/SAT scores, shows there isn't a really big difference, and of course only counts those going to college and taking the exam. I'm sure its all those inner city republican droppouts that sway elections!
And beats hosts edited version. |
Also since it doesn't say WHO is voting, its only by state, and states which have large urban centers tend to go to the Democrats, you have to wonder if anything really being measured here?
In other words, host give me a break, your side ain't smarter.
Ahhhh finally here someone did my homework for me.... I knew someone would understand.
First, the 'IQ' gap.
To the above may I say 'duh'
Now for the grim reality to the democrats....
http://www.zombietime.com/iq_of_2004_voters_by_state/
 host this was an easy one, add more links next time so I don't bother reading it.
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Your "snopes.com" article is irrelevant, since:
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Oh and I found this
http://sq.4mg.com/IQpolitics.htm
Which uses ACT/SAT scores, shows there isn't a really big difference, and of course only counts those going to college and taking the exam. I'm sure its all those inner city republican droppouts that sway elections!
And beats hosts edited version. |
<b>[1}</b> What you "found", was the first link that I posted in the OP, pointing to the principle citation (and influence) for the creation of the OP.
What do you mean, <b>"you found it?"</b>
<b>[2}</b>The reason that I prominently posted the link that "you found",
was because, the first thing that the linked page did, was <b>display the identical subject and argument against it, that your long, snopes.com, linked cut and past made....</b>
I posted the link to avoid what you did, anyway;
You attempted to confuse the info at Van Sloan's sq.4mg.com/IQpolitics.htm , by "linking" it with the snopes.com described, debunked IQ/Voting data and table.
<b>[3}</b> At the bottom of the page at the link that "you found",
http://sq.4mg.com/IQpolitics.htm, is a link in big, bokd letters:
<h3>Go to: <a href="http://sq.4mg.com/IQ-States.htm">Calculating state IQ's from SAT and ACT scores</a></h3>
The link above displays a page that lists IQ data by state. and at the bottom, <b>the adjustments to address your concerns</b>, are explained:
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Originally Posted by Ustwo}
.....Which uses ACT/SAT scores, shows there isn't a really big difference, <b>and of course only counts those going to college and taking the exam. I'm sure its all those inner city republican droppouts that sway elections!</b>
And beats hosts edited version.[/quote
Also since it doesn't say WHO is voting, its only by state, <b>and states which have large urban centers tend to go to the Democrats, you have to wonder if anything really being measured here?</b>
In other words, host give me a break, your side ain't smarter.
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Quote:
<a href="http://sq.4mg.com/IQ-States.htm">Calculating state IQ's from SAT and ACT scores</a>
Left side of chart is from http://christianparty.net/actstates.htm
ACT to SAT conversion from http://www.collegeboard.com/sat/cbse...l/stat00f.html
* IQ from the SAT - IQ estimator at http://sq.4mg.com/IQ-SATchart.htm
** IQ from the SAT webpage http://sq.4mg.com/SATstates.htm
<h3>Estimated IQ for all citizens of a state is normally set 10 points less than the IQ of ACT test takers, to make a national average of 100 IQ.</h3> This difference is proportionally reduced <b> when over 60% of high school grads take the ACT. The same reduction was made for SAT test takers.</b> Note that the <b>average IQ here for all states is about 100, which is slightly larger than America's 98 IQ</b> in the IQ comparison of nations.
<b>Viewer comment on the above paragraph</b>: So, we have a 10 point reduction taken across the board with no scientific data to back the reduction. What about <b>certain states with unusually high numbers of professionals due to local universities or white collar level jobs? Both of which could be attracted to the state from other locations, thus further skewing the results of the ACT test takers as it cannot take into account movement of people. Or a state with a large number of military bases where the average member is not college educated. There are SO many other potential factors that can skew statistics.</b> And non of this makes an attempt to gage common sense or what is known as practical understanding. (From http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...howtopic=11028 posted Nov 3 2004, 10:13 AM by Foredeck Shuffle)
<b>Sloan responds to above comment: Each of the viewer's comments could affect the average state IQ numbers. But until better data becomes available, I believe this page presents the best state IQ information available anywhere. </b>Two points: <b>(1) The10 point reduction produces state IQ's that average the expected 100 , and (2) The higher income professionals attracted to selected states tend to raise high SAT scoring children in those new states.</b>
This page is NOT a hoax, unlike the unverified state IQ's designed to show that Democrats were smarter.
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....<b>Ustwo..... I cannot see where you "debunked" anything....... </b>
In addition to the two points that the "State IQ" site's author, Sloan made, in the sentences just preceding my closing comments...( please review what you've posted that refutes Sloan's claim that his <b>"page presents the best state IQ information available anywhere"</b>), you've ignored the more dramatic 2003, per capita income differences of the two groups of 2004 voters.
Now that your concerns:
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
.....Which uses ACT/SAT scores, shows there isn't a really big difference, <b>and of course only counts those going to college and taking the exam. I'm sure its all those inner city republican droppouts that sway elections!</b>
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...have been addressed by Van Sloan, what argument can you make to persuasively counter his fomula for determining state IQ averages? Is there more authoritative data, or a more impressive formula to determine state IQ,
that you can point to, for us?
Are the flaws in Sloan's method or his data, or his research on the relationships between SAT and ACT test scores, and IQ?
....and, to Ustwo, and Seaver:
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Originally Posted by Seaver
Funny the only "resource" I found through 30min of searching their site is a link to the census bureau that goes no where.
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Seaver....<b>here is a link to the page at the "dead" census.gov link:</b>
http://web.archive.org/web/200411140...www/part6.html
...the last point in Ustwo's "debunking" effort, was anticipated on the page from the this prominent link, displayed in the OP:
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http://sq.4mg.com/weighting.htm
(<b>Near the bottom of the page:</b>)
.....As you can see, after weighting each state for population, there is a much stronger correlation between IQ of a state's population and voting democratic than your analysis suggests.
Since it appears that you want your site to show as accurate representation of the data as possible, I thought you'd be interested in this.
Thanks for your time.
Sincerely,
Doug Waage
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<b>Seaver obviously found his way to the page in the preceding quote box, the link Seaver described as,.... "link to the census bureau that goes no where."....is displayed on that page.</b> The calculations of Doug Waage, that impressed Van Sloan enough to create an entire page for...at the preceding link....also impressed me enough to author a new thread about.
<b>So....why do you, Ustwo, ignore it, and instead, post this?:</b>
Since the first link in the thread OP was to Sloan's display of the matrial covered in your snope.com linked material, and making clear that his data and methodology had corrected the flaws in that 2004 internet hoax, why did you lead your "debunking" with the snopes.com article?
<b>In summary....Ustwo, all of the major points that you made in your "debunking" post, were addressed....before you raised them:</b>
1.) The 2004 "internet hoax" described in the first link in this thread OP
2.) "and of course only counts those going to college and taking the exam. I'm sure its all those inner city republican droppouts that sway elections!"
3.)"Also since it doesn't say WHO is voting, its only by state, and states which have large urban centers tend to go to the Democrats, you have to wonder if anything really being measured here?"
4.)"Ahhhh finally here someone did my homework for me.... I knew someone would understand.
First, the 'IQ' gap."
"It's easy enough to figure out. Since electoral votes are based on population (the more people that live in a state, the more electoral votes it has), one merely has to multiply each state's average IQ by its electoral vote count, then add up the totals in each candidate's column, and divide by each candidate's electoral vote total. The results will be a highly accurate average IQ of the voters for each side."
<b>host asks: didn't the core quote box....in the thread OP, the one with the list of more than 20 states...already provide <a href="http://sq.4mg.com/weighting.htm">States IQ chart - weighted by population</a></b>....and doesn't that weighting provide a clearer measure of IQ average, by state, than an "electoral vote", weighting?