Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Explain something to me about Libertarianism

ASU2003 · 10-28-2006, 12:31 PM

My comments are in italics, everything else is quoted.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml

National Platform of the Libertarian Party

Adopted in Convention, July 2, 2006, Portland Oregon

Preamble

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others."

"We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized."

"Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power."

www.lp.org/issues
Pollution:

"Who's the greatest polluter of all? The oil companies? The chemical companies? The nuclear power plants?

If you guessed "none of the above," you'd be correct. Our government, at the federal, state, and local levels, is the single greatest polluter in the land. In addition, our government doesn't even clean up its own garbage!

In 1988, for example, the EPA demanded that the Departments of Energy and Defense clean up 17 of their weapons plants which were leaking radioactive and toxic chemicals -- enough contamination to cost $100 billion in clean-up costs over 50 years! The EPA was simply ignored. No bureaucrats went to jail or were sued for damages. Government departments have sovereign immunity."

"Libertarians would make government as responsible for its actions as everyone else is expected to be. Libertarians would protect the environment by first abolishing sovereign immunity."

"Demonstrable pollution is an invasion of property rights and should be outlawed."
-Murray N. Rothbard

I'm not sure who would pay to clean it up after the company declares bankrupcy, or if companies can pollute in China why they wouldn't just move there. The government would have to raise taxes to clean up it's sites, so I'm not sure how that will work.

www.lp.org/issues
Gun Laws:
"Prohibition didn't stop liquor use; the drug laws can't stop drug use. Making gun ownership illegal will not stop gun ownership."
"The police do not provide security in your home, your business or the street. They show up after the crime to take reports and do detective work."
"But, if a person commits a crime with a gun, then impose the severest penalties for the injuries done to the victim. Similarly, hold the negligent gun user fully liable for all harm his negligence does to others."
"Rather than banning guns, the politicians and the police should encourage gun ownership, as well as education and training programs. A responsible, well-armed and trained citizenry is the best protection against domestic crime and the threat of foreign invasion."

www.lp.org/issues
Foreign Aid:
"Foreign aid is little more than welfare for nations -- with the same disastrous effects as domestic welfare programs."
Indeed, the U.S. Agency for International Development itself admits, "Only a handful of countries that started receiving U.S. assistance in the 1950s and 1960s has ever graduated from dependent status."
"For example, following a devastating earthquake in Guatemala, farmers trying to sell their surplus grain found the market flooded by the U.S. Food for Peace program."

Although the greedy farmers probably would have tried to jack up prices and the local people would have had to find food elsewhere. Eventually, the farmers from outside the area would want in on the action and bring prices down.

www.lp.org/issues
Inflation And Taxes:
"Something has caused your family's budget to be cut. Something is going to destroy your family's future unless you act to stop it.

That something is the Federal government and its policy of taxation and inflation. Let's take a look at a median income family of four in the 1950s. At that time, the Federal income tax amounted to only 2% of the family budget. Americans enjoyed the highest standard of living in the world.

By contrast, in the 1990s, the Federal income tax takes 25% of income for the same family of four. Taxes at all levels -- federal, state, and local; hidden and visible -- take about 50% of a family's income. We must work from January to June just to pay taxes."

" Whether the inflation rate is 12% or 3%, the result is the same: groceries cost more; clothing costs more; your car costs more. You work harder every year for less purchasing power."

"The Federal government is driving your family into bankruptcy."

"The government hasn't stopped there. They have borrowed so much money that your children will be sacrificing their entire economic lives to pay the Federal debt."

"Over one hundred Libertarians are currently holding public office. Each of them is working today to keep the government from taking any more of your money. And each of them believes that if government were limited to protecting us against force and fraud, then most Americans would be better off. Less government corruption. No more expensive "boondoggle" projects. No more "special interest" favors at your expense."

"The Libertarian Party will stop the waste in government by decreasing its size and power. We will work to roll back the power of Washington bureaucrats and politicians -- and leave you and your neighbors in control of your own lives."

Drugs - Legal
Allow the doctors and patients to decide which ones they should take, even experimental untested ones. Companies would most likely pay to get testing in order to prove that their drugs work and most people won't take experimental drugs unless it is a last resort. The testing agency can't be bribed into approving bad drugs or ignoring side effects, because they don't want to be held legally responsible if they approve bad drugs. Drug makers also can get sued if they knowingly withhold the bad side effect information from consumers.

Drugs - Illegal
http://molibertarian.tripod.com/drugs.html
"Libertarians are often confused as being the party that wants people to take drugs. Most all Libertarians I talk to believe drug use is very harmful and dangerous."
"Libertarian also believes that the legalization of drugs would end most of the drug problem. Drugs are profitable because they are illegal, people sell drugs to make a profit"
"Libertarians also believe you own your own body and you can make decisions about it or the government can make it for you."

http://www.azlp.org/ISSUES/issue.shtml?t=The_Drug_War
"Not for the lack of effort. In 2001, the federal government spent $18 billion fighting the War on Drugs. More than 19,000 state and local police officers work full-time on drug cases. Despite all of this money and firepower, 82% of high school seniors say that getting marijuana is "fairly" or "very" easy--a number that hasn't budged in 20 years."

"But the War on Drugs isn't just a failure. It's also a threat to your safety. In 2000, for example, 734,497 Americans were arrested on marijuana-related charges. That same year, only 625,243 violent criminals were arrested for murder, rape, robbery, or aggravated assault (according to FBI figures). In other words, the War on Drugs is making your family less safe because police spend their time arresting marijuana smokers instead of apprehending brutal thugs."

"Libertarians don't claim that ending the War on Drugs will solve every problem. Some people will always make bad choices about drugs, whether legal or illegal. But the War on Drugs isn't working."

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#drugwar
"The Principle: Individuals should have the right to use drugs, whether for medical or recreational purposes, without fear of legal reprisals, but must be held legally responsible for the consequences of their actions only if they violate others’ rights.

Solutions: Social involvement by individuals is essential to address the problem of substance misuse and abuse. Popular education and assistance groups are a better approach than prohibition, and we support the activities of private organizations as the best way to move forward on the issue."

www.lp.org/issues
Healthcare
"The Libertarian Party will work towards the following:

1. Establish Medical Saving Accounts.

Under this program, you could deposit tax-free money into a Medical Savings Account (MSA). Whenever you need the money to pay medical bills, you will be able to withdraw it. For individuals without an MSA, the Libertarian Party will work to make all healthcare expenditures 100 percent tax deductible.

2. Deregulate the healthcare industry.

We should repeal all government policies that increase health costs and decrease the availability of medical services. For example, every state has laws that mandate coverage of specific disabilities and diseases. These laws reduce consumer choice and increase the cost of health insurance. By making insurance more expensive, mandated benefits increase the number of uninsured American workers.

3. Remove barriers to safe, affordable medicines.

We should replace harmful government agencies like the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) with more agile, free-market alternatives. The mission of the FDA is to protect us from unsafe medicines. In fact, the FDA has driven up healthcare costs and deprived millions of Americans of much-needed treatments. For example, during a 10-year delay in approving Propanolol Propranolol (a heart medication for treating angina and hypertension), approximately 100,000 people died who could have been treated with this lifesaving drug. Bureaucratic roadblocks kill sick Americans."

If you allow private health care insurance companies to put incentives to make people live healthier lifestyles, they will need less in the way of healthcare (and they will make more profits). People will choose the insurance plan that is best for them and what their needs are. Although some people here don't seem to think that is a Libertarian idea.

Freedom of Religion
http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#freereli

"Principle: We defend the rights of individuals to engage in (or abstain from) any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others."

"Solution: In order to defend freedom, we advocate a strict separation of church and State. We oppose government actions that either aid or attack any religion. We oppose taxation of church property for the same reason that we oppose all taxation. We condemn the attempts by parents or any others -- via kidnappings or conservatorships -- to force children to conform to any religious views. Government harassment or obstruction of religious groups for their beliefs or non-violent activities must end. "

Iraq War
http://www.lp.org/issues/current.shtml
"Despite this progress, the president has yet to provide a plan for withdrawing troops and bringing them home. American troops have completed their mission. A democratically-elected government is in place. The vast majority of Iraq is stable and oil production has increased. The process of gradually ceding control of the country to the new Iraqi government should begin without delay. American troops will remain a target as long as they remain in the country."

They go into more detail here: http://www.lp.org/exitplan.pdf

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml
Sexuality and Gender
The Issue: Politicians use popular fears and taboos to legally impose a particular code of moral and social values. Government regularly denies rights and privileges on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

The Principle: Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have legitimate authority to define or license personal relationships. Sexuality or gender should have no impact on the rights of individuals.

Solutions: Culture wars, social friction and prejudice will fade when marriage and other personal relationships are treated as private contracts, solely defined by the individuals involved, and government discrimination is not allowed.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml
Reproductive Rights
Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.
The Principle: Individual rights should not be denied nor abridged on the basis of sex, age, dependency, or location. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay for other people's abortions, nor should any government or individual force a woman to have an abortion. It is the right and obligation of the pregnant woman regardless of age, not the state, to decide the desirability or appropriateness of prenatal testing, Caesarean births, fetal surgery, voluntary surrogacy arrangements and/or home births.

Immigration
http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#immgr
"The Issue: Our borders are currently neither open, closed, nor secure. This situation restricts the labor pool, encouraging employers to hire undocumented workers, while leaving those workers neither subject to nor protected by the law. A completely open border allows foreign criminals, carriers of communicable diseases, terrorists and other potential threats to enter the country unchecked. Pandering politicians guarantee access to public services for undocumented aliens, to the detriment of those who would enter to work productively, and increasing the burden on taxpayers.

The Principle: The legitimate function and obligation of government to protect the lives, rights and property of its citizens, requires awareness of and control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demands that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.

"Solutions: Borders will be secure, with free entry to those who have demonstrated compliance with certain requirements. The terms and conditions of entry into the United States must be simple and clearly spelled out. Documenting the entry of individuals must be restricted to screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security. It is the obligation of the prospective immigrant to demonstrate compliance with these requirements."

I would still be worried about over population and flooding the market with people who will work for $1 less than the last guy. Employers and the people who own things can say, if you won't work for this low price, there are 10 other people that will.

There are some problems with the plans that the Libertarians have, however there are problems with the Democrats and Republicans as well. But, solutions and compromises are agreed upon on the floor of congress. I'm not saying that a country with a Libertarian majority would be a great place to live, it would be very volatile and risky at times. However, other things would be very good about living in a Libertarian country. I really wouldn't mind if they and some other outside parties become part of congress though.

10-28-2006, 12:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	My comments are in italics, everything else is quoted. http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml National Platform of the Libertarian Party Adopted in Convention, July 2, 2006, Portland Oregon Preamble "As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others." "We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized." "Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power." www.lp.org/issues Pollution: "Who's the greatest polluter of all? The oil companies? The chemical companies? The nuclear power plants? If you guessed "none of the above," you'd be correct. Our government, at the federal, state, and local levels, is the single greatest polluter in the land. In addition, our government doesn't even clean up its own garbage! In 1988, for example, the EPA demanded that the Departments of Energy and Defense clean up 17 of their weapons plants which were leaking radioactive and toxic chemicals -- enough contamination to cost $100 billion in clean-up costs over 50 years! The EPA was simply ignored. No bureaucrats went to jail or were sued for damages. Government departments have sovereign immunity." "Libertarians would make government as responsible for its actions as everyone else is expected to be. Libertarians would protect the environment by first abolishing sovereign immunity." "Demonstrable pollution is an invasion of property rights and should be outlawed." -Murray N. Rothbard I'm not sure who would pay to clean it up after the company declares bankrupcy, or if companies can pollute in China why they wouldn't just move there. The government would have to raise taxes to clean up it's sites, so I'm not sure how that will work. www.lp.org/issues Gun Laws: "Prohibition didn't stop liquor use; the drug laws can't stop drug use. Making gun ownership illegal will not stop gun ownership." "The police do not provide security in your home, your business or the street. They show up after the crime to take reports and do detective work." "But, if a person commits a crime with a gun, then impose the severest penalties for the injuries done to the victim. Similarly, hold the negligent gun user fully liable for all harm his negligence does to others." "Rather than banning guns, the politicians and the police should encourage gun ownership, as well as education and training programs. A responsible, well-armed and trained citizenry is the best protection against domestic crime and the threat of foreign invasion." www.lp.org/issues Foreign Aid: "Foreign aid is little more than welfare for nations -- with the same disastrous effects as domestic welfare programs." Indeed, the U.S. Agency for International Development itself admits, "Only a handful of countries that started receiving U.S. assistance in the 1950s and 1960s has ever graduated from dependent status." "For example, following a devastating earthquake in Guatemala, farmers trying to sell their surplus grain found the market flooded by the U.S. Food for Peace program." Although the greedy farmers probably would have tried to jack up prices and the local people would have had to find food elsewhere. Eventually, the farmers from outside the area would want in on the action and bring prices down. www.lp.org/issues Inflation And Taxes: "Something has caused your family's budget to be cut. Something is going to destroy your family's future unless you act to stop it. That something is the Federal government and its policy of taxation and inflation. Let's take a look at a median income family of four in the 1950s. At that time, the Federal income tax amounted to only 2% of the family budget. Americans enjoyed the highest standard of living in the world. By contrast, in the 1990s, the Federal income tax takes 25% of income for the same family of four. Taxes at all levels -- federal, state, and local; hidden and visible -- take about 50% of a family's income. We must work from January to June just to pay taxes." " Whether the inflation rate is 12% or 3%, the result is the same: groceries cost more; clothing costs more; your car costs more. You work harder every year for less purchasing power." "The Federal government is driving your family into bankruptcy." "The government hasn't stopped there. They have borrowed so much money that your children will be sacrificing their entire economic lives to pay the Federal debt." "Over one hundred Libertarians are currently holding public office. Each of them is working today to keep the government from taking any more of your money. And each of them believes that if government were limited to protecting us against force and fraud, then most Americans would be better off. Less government corruption. No more expensive "boondoggle" projects. No more "special interest" favors at your expense." "The Libertarian Party will stop the waste in government by decreasing its size and power. We will work to roll back the power of Washington bureaucrats and politicians -- and leave you and your neighbors in control of your own lives." Drugs - Legal Allow the doctors and patients to decide which ones they should take, even experimental untested ones. Companies would most likely pay to get testing in order to prove that their drugs work and most people won't take experimental drugs unless it is a last resort. The testing agency can't be bribed into approving bad drugs or ignoring side effects, because they don't want to be held legally responsible if they approve bad drugs. Drug makers also can get sued if they knowingly withhold the bad side effect information from consumers. Drugs - Illegal http://molibertarian.tripod.com/drugs.html "Libertarians are often confused as being the party that wants people to take drugs. Most all Libertarians I talk to believe drug use is very harmful and dangerous." "Libertarian also believes that the legalization of drugs would end most of the drug problem. Drugs are profitable because they are illegal, people sell drugs to make a profit" "Libertarians also believe you own your own body and you can make decisions about it or the government can make it for you." http://www.azlp.org/ISSUES/issue.shtml?t=The_Drug_War "Not for the lack of effort. In 2001, the federal government spent $18 billion fighting the War on Drugs. More than 19,000 state and local police officers work full-time on drug cases. Despite all of this money and firepower, 82% of high school seniors say that getting marijuana is "fairly" or "very" easy--a number that hasn't budged in 20 years." "But the War on Drugs isn't just a failure. It's also a threat to your safety. In 2000, for example, 734,497 Americans were arrested on marijuana-related charges. That same year, only 625,243 violent criminals were arrested for murder, rape, robbery, or aggravated assault (according to FBI figures). In other words, the War on Drugs is making your family less safe because police spend their time arresting marijuana smokers instead of apprehending brutal thugs." "Libertarians don't claim that ending the War on Drugs will solve every problem. Some people will always make bad choices about drugs, whether legal or illegal. But the War on Drugs isn't working." http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#drugwar "The Principle: Individuals should have the right to use drugs, whether for medical or recreational purposes, without fear of legal reprisals, but must be held legally responsible for the consequences of their actions only if they violate others’ rights. Solutions: Social involvement by individuals is essential to address the problem of substance misuse and abuse. Popular education and assistance groups are a better approach than prohibition, and we support the activities of private organizations as the best way to move forward on the issue." www.lp.org/issues Healthcare "The Libertarian Party will work towards the following: 1. Establish Medical Saving Accounts. Under this program, you could deposit tax-free money into a Medical Savings Account (MSA). Whenever you need the money to pay medical bills, you will be able to withdraw it. For individuals without an MSA, the Libertarian Party will work to make all healthcare expenditures 100 percent tax deductible. 2. Deregulate the healthcare industry. We should repeal all government policies that increase health costs and decrease the availability of medical services. For example, every state has laws that mandate coverage of specific disabilities and diseases. These laws reduce consumer choice and increase the cost of health insurance. By making insurance more expensive, mandated benefits increase the number of uninsured American workers. 3. Remove barriers to safe, affordable medicines. We should replace harmful government agencies like the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) with more agile, free-market alternatives. The mission of the FDA is to protect us from unsafe medicines. In fact, the FDA has driven up healthcare costs and deprived millions of Americans of much-needed treatments. For example, during a 10-year delay in approving Propanolol Propranolol (a heart medication for treating angina and hypertension), approximately 100,000 people died who could have been treated with this lifesaving drug. Bureaucratic roadblocks kill sick Americans." If you allow private health care insurance companies to put incentives to make people live healthier lifestyles, they will need less in the way of healthcare (and they will make more profits). People will choose the insurance plan that is best for them and what their needs are. Although some people here don't seem to think that is a Libertarian idea. Freedom of Religion http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#freereli "Principle: We defend the rights of individuals to engage in (or abstain from) any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others." "Solution: In order to defend freedom, we advocate a strict separation of church and State. We oppose government actions that either aid or attack any religion. We oppose taxation of church property for the same reason that we oppose all taxation. We condemn the attempts by parents or any others -- via kidnappings or conservatorships -- to force children to conform to any religious views. Government harassment or obstruction of religious groups for their beliefs or non-violent activities must end. " Iraq War http://www.lp.org/issues/current.shtml "Despite this progress, the president has yet to provide a plan for withdrawing troops and bringing them home. American troops have completed their mission. A democratically-elected government is in place. The vast majority of Iraq is stable and oil production has increased. The process of gradually ceding control of the country to the new Iraqi government should begin without delay. American troops will remain a target as long as they remain in the country." They go into more detail here: http://www.lp.org/exitplan.pdf http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml Sexuality and Gender The Issue: Politicians use popular fears and taboos to legally impose a particular code of moral and social values. Government regularly denies rights and privileges on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. The Principle: Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have legitimate authority to define or license personal relationships. Sexuality or gender should have no impact on the rights of individuals. Solutions: Culture wars, social friction and prejudice will fade when marriage and other personal relationships are treated as private contracts, solely defined by the individuals involved, and government discrimination is not allowed. http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml Reproductive Rights Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration. The Principle: Individual rights should not be denied nor abridged on the basis of sex, age, dependency, or location. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay for other people's abortions, nor should any government or individual force a woman to have an abortion. It is the right and obligation of the pregnant woman regardless of age, not the state, to decide the desirability or appropriateness of prenatal testing, Caesarean births, fetal surgery, voluntary surrogacy arrangements and/or home births. Immigration http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#immgr "The Issue: Our borders are currently neither open, closed, nor secure. This situation restricts the labor pool, encouraging employers to hire undocumented workers, while leaving those workers neither subject to nor protected by the law. A completely open border allows foreign criminals, carriers of communicable diseases, terrorists and other potential threats to enter the country unchecked. Pandering politicians guarantee access to public services for undocumented aliens, to the detriment of those who would enter to work productively, and increasing the burden on taxpayers. The Principle: The legitimate function and obligation of government to protect the lives, rights and property of its citizens, requires awareness of and control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demands that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. "Solutions: Borders will be secure, with free entry to those who have demonstrated compliance with certain requirements. The terms and conditions of entry into the United States must be simple and clearly spelled out. Documenting the entry of individuals must be restricted to screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security. It is the obligation of the prospective immigrant to demonstrate compliance with these requirements." I would still be worried about over population and flooding the market with people who will work for $1 less than the last guy. Employers and the people who own things can say, if you won't work for this low price, there are 10 other people that will. There are some problems with the plans that the Libertarians have, however there are problems with the Democrats and Republicans as well. But, solutions and compromises are agreed upon on the floor of congress. I'm not saying that a country with a Libertarian majority would be a great place to live, it would be very volatile and risky at times. However, other things would be very good about living in a Libertarian country. I really wouldn't mind if they and some other outside parties become part of congress though. Last edited by ASU2003; 10-28-2006 at 12:38 PM..