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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
How did you come to the conclusion that there is insufficient effidence either way? If you'd do a bit of research on the subject, you'd find that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence which proves that the Bible doesn't condone homosexuality.
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Not condoning is not the same as condemning. However, I do think maybe you chould consider the story of Johnathan and David. It's a pretty sweet love story.
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As I said to Gilda, the underlying logic of Christianity is that the Bible is infallible, since it was written by God through humans. Therefore, it's not up for debate and personal interpretation.
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Actually it is up to debate. We've been debating it. It is subject to interpretation. Every person interprets everything they read every time they read it, without exception. If you gain meaning from words, you have interpreted them.
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Saying that different interpretations of the Bible could mean different things isn't a good argument,
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It's absolutely a rock solid argument, because different interpretations of scripture do come to different conclusions regarding the meaning. This is a fact.
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because people who have studied the original (Or what's left of them) Biblical scrolls come to the same conclusion as the majority of theologins today. The basis of the thread is Christianity and homosexuality, therefore one would believe that all arguments would stem from a Christian basis.
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Of course. There is not, however, one Christian belief system. There are hundreds of them all having certain elements in common. Unity, MCC, Pentecostals, Episcopaleans, Catholics, and Southern Baptists are all Christians, and all come to different conclusons using the same basic source materials. Some Christians believe in Biblical inerrancy. The MCC churches, for example, believe this, and likewise believe that there is no blanket condemnation of homosexuality in the bible.
Christian Churches don't all have identical belief systems
I'm cool with that. It's fine with me that Catholics don't have female or openly gay clergy. I'm no longer Catholic, so their belief system doesn't apply to me. It's cool with me that Southern Baptists believe in "once saved, always saved". I don't believe that, but I'm not a Baptist, so it's not something that I need to be concerned with. The Church of Christ and the First Christian Church have nearly identical belief systems, but the Church of Christ split off from the FCC in an internal dispute over whether the Bible permits instrumental music in church and other related topics. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so other Christian belief systems aren't applicable to me, except when they're used as justification for restricting my human rights, in other words, used to attempt to regulate matters external to the church rather than internal.
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And, just so you know, the Bible does condemn homosexuality. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why a select group of people seemingly believe that they know more than people who spend their entire lives dedicated to researching the Bible and Christian beliefs.
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I, for one, don't claim to know more.
Everone who reads the bible interprets it. Everyone who reads anything interprets what they are reading. Only the illiterate don't do this. You cannot live by Biblical principals without doing this, without knowing what they are and what they mean and how they apply to your life situation.
For example, I see no biblical condemnation of monogamous, stable, loving, same-sex relationships.
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Johnathan and David
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1 samuel 18
When David had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father’s house. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that he was wearing, and gave it to David, and his armour, and even his sword and his bow and his belt.
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The two men meet, love each other more than their own souls at first sight, Johnathan strips and presents those things that are most valuable to him to David.
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1 Samuel 20:14-17
If I am still alive, show me the faithful love of the Lord; but if I die, never cut off your faithful love from my house, even if the Lord were to cut off every one of the enemies of David from the face of the earth.’ Thus Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, ‘May the Lord seek out the enemies of David.’ Jonathan made David swear again by his love for him; for he loved him as he loved his own life.
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A covenant to join houses in the name of the Lord. Hmmm.
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1 Samual 30--
Then Saul’s anger was kindled against Jonathan. He said to him, ‘You son of a perverse, rebellious woman! Do I not know that you have chosen the son of Jesse to your own shame, and to the shame of your mother’s nakedness? For as long as the son of Jesse lives upon the earth, neither you nor your kingdom shall be established. Now send and bring him to me, for he shall surely die.’ Then Jonathan answered his father Saul, ‘Why should he be put to death? What has he done?’ But Saul threw his spear at him to strike him; so Jonathan knew that it was the decision of his father to put David to death
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Saul is upset that his son has shamed him by loving David, to the point that he wants David killed.
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1 Samuel 20:41-45
As soon as the boy had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. He bowed three times, and they kissed each other, and wept with each other; David wept the more. Then Jonathan said to David, ‘Go in peace, since both of us have sworn in the name of the Lord, saying, “The Lord shall be between me and you, and between my descendants and your descendants, for ever.”
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The two men kiss each other and cry as they say goodbye, and speak of the covenant with God joining their houses.
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2 samuel 1:26
I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan;
greatly beloved were you to me;
your love to me was wonderful,
passing the love of women.
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Finally David professes a love for Jonathan greater than the love of women.
It's a classic love story, and I'm pretty sure David is held in high esteem in the Bible.
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Ruth and Naomi
Ruth 1:16-17
‘Do not press me to leave you
or to turn back from following you!
Where you go, I will go;
where you lodge, I will lodge;
your people shall be my people,
and your God my God.
Where you die, I will die—
there will I be buried.
May the Lord do thus and so to me,
and more as well,
if even death parts me from you!’
Sweet, isn't it? Words spoken from one woman to another. Grace and I used this as part of our wedding ceremony.
Gilda