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Originally Posted by Gilda
Nah, and here's the problem. "The Bible" is quite vague. What translation, and what interpretation? Some interpretations of some translations see homosexuality as a sin, other interpretations don't, some bibles use one translation, others use another. Homosexuality, that is, the state of being attracted to others of the same sex, is not addressed at all in the bible. All references are to specific instances of male-male sex acts. The act, not the state. Homosexuality as a relatively stable state of being was not a concept that in any probability existed at the time the bible was written. Temple prostitution and pederasty (an older man having sex with a younger boy) were, and the admonitions against male-male homsexual acts were likely a reaction to those elements of Roman society.
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The Bible, as we know it, in many instances explicitly states that the act of homosexuality is an abomination to God. It would make sense that all references of homosexuality are male-male, as it was a patriarchal society at the time. Still, women were expected to follow the laws handed down to men (See Adam and Eve).
You know what else isn't addressed in the Bible? The state of being attracted to an animal or family members. When you make an argument such as the aforementioned, you assume that there was no absolutely no knowledge of homosexuality as a feeling. Could it be that the act was of more importance?
And, as I'm curious, could you find me one translation of the Bible which doesn't see homosexuality as a sin?
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In biblical terms, Sodomite means a resident of Sodom. The whole city was condemned for it's sins. The modern meaning of sexual contact other than vaginal intercourse is derived from the biblical usage. It makes little sense to project modern usage back on previous uses of the word. It's just unsound etymologically. Also, even in modern usage, sodomy does not mean homosexual sex, it in general means oral or anal sex, which is something engaged in far more often by heterosexuals than homosexuals. It was consensual sodomy laws that were struck down, not forcible sodomy which remain on the books, as they should.
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By the time the New Testament era had come around, the cities of Sodom and Gamorra had been destroyed for hundreds of years. I fully well know how the original word was derived and its meaning. The word "Sodomy" is derived from the sexual acts which occurred in the region.
Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a semantics debate, but look up the word "Sodomy". One of it's meaning will be "Intercourse between two members of the same sex". Notice that I didn't say that it only had one meaning (In reference to an earlier post).
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Nope. The original language is male specific, and adresses specific sex acts, not homosexuality in general.
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The entire Bible is male specific, with a few passages dedicated to women in general.
*Further explained a bit below*
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Homosexuality, that is the state of being homosexual, is not addressed anywhere in any way in the Bible. It would be surprising if it did, as exclusive male homosexuality wasn't really a cultural concept of the time, and the idea that there were female homosexuals would probably have been an entirely foreign concept.
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Ah! I love the "But the Bible doesn't say anything about homosexual feelings!" argument. Unfortunately, the Bible says
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING which would promote homosexuality in any form, feelings or the manifestation of it, either. In fact, it says just the opposite.
Now, I'm going to assume that since you're arguing from a Biblical standpoint that you believe that the Bible is the absolute truth and that God is omnipotent. If both the latter are true and if God doesn't show disdain for homosexuality, then why are there no passages of scripture stating as much?
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Certain male-male homosexual acts are addressed, but homosexuality itself is not, and discussion of female homosexual acts is absent.
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There are very few commandments in the Bible given explicitly to women, simply because the society was male-dominated (Patriarchal). However, men were given the laws and women were expected to abide by them.
Take the story of Adam and Eve, for example. While God never explicitly commanded Eve not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, she was expected to follow the rules that God had layed down upon Adam. Therefore, she was prone to the same penalties as Adam when she broke them.
It's the same same concept.
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Interesting how you jump from what the bible says to what God believes. Do you have a hotline or something like that? I've got some questions I'd like to ask.
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No, I don't have a hotline; I've just got good reading skills
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Ah, well, it's good to see you admit that you're guessing. My guess would be that the "Don't do it" refers to the specific acts and doesn't qualify as a blanket condemnation. Just as with the many heterosexual acts condemned.
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Not to sound brash or offensive, but what part of "It's an abomination to me" is so hard to understand?
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The ten commandments were reaffirmed in the New Testament, but still, there's no blanket condemnation of homosexuality (as opposed to specific homosexual acts in a specific context) in the Old Testament as well. You'd think that if Jesus was really all that concerned with homosexuality, he'd have said a little more than what he did about it, which was, by the way, nothing.
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While Jesus never said anything specific about homosexuality, he did command others to follow the "Laws of Moses" (Jesus himself lived by the law).
Matthew 23: 2-3
Matthew 23: 16-22
Mark 7: 7-13
Luke 10: 25-28
Leviticus 18: 22, one of the "Laws of Moses", clearly prohibits homosexual encounters.
If Jesus promoted the "Laws of Moses" and the they, in turn, prohibited homosexuality, then is Jesus' stand on homosexuality not clear?
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Unnecessary. A lack of support does not equal condemnation.
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There are numerous times in the Bible where homosexuality is referred to as an "Abomination before God". Even worse, you happened to provide a passage of Scripture which even said that homosexuals have no place in heaven, so I've no idea where you get the notion that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality.
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Show me a passage where driving a car is condoned, or eating barbequed potato chips or running the high hurdles. Are we to assume those things are sinful because the aren't condoned? Of course not. Endorsement in the bible is not a requirement for an act to be permitted.
However:
Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’
Also, Matthew 8: 5-13
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If you want to play this game, then I can most certainly play this game. While there isn't anything explicitly relating to driving a car or eating barbecue, there are passages of scriptures directly relating to homosexuality and none those passages condones the act.
And, as you are aware, Christians are commanded to love their neighbour but hate the sin, the sin in this case being homosexuality.
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No, truly I'm in agreement with you on the main point, that projecting an agenda onto the texts of The Bible is counterproductive.
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Yet you continue to do it, which perplexes me.
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The disagreement here is in who is doing this.
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There really shouldn't be any disagreement. The Bible is quite clear on the subject.
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No, you're not being objective. You have an agenda, a pretty clear one, and you're promoting it pretty heavily.
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If I had a problem with you or any other homosexual, I'd tell you so.