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roachboy · 10-02-2006, 07:16 AM

my my this thread certainly tanked, didn't it?
it's a shame because this is an important topic. i suppose that is among the points of a troll, really--to reduce questions political to lint personal, distract, divert, etc.

i have thought quite a bit about this one over the weekend.

i think there are several underlying reason why this thread generated such heat--the official sanctioning of torture, the rewriting of the geneva conventions, the granting of immunity from prosecution for war crimes of a cadre that would have you think that americans cannot commit war crimes a priori, the legitmation of military kangaroo courts, the validation of the bushleague legal black hole, the expansion of the notion of enemy to potentially include american citizens, the suspension of habeas corpus...the fact that congress bent over and approved this...the stacking of the courts with far right activists appointed in the name of thwarting "activism"---problems with the last two presidential elections that remain unresolved....

years of fiasco international and domestic...

it seems that public protest has gone away: it is almost like the masses of people who turned out in opposition to the iraq debacle around the coutry actually believed the administration would take note of them, would listen, as if they had been chumped by the illusion that cowboy george is a decent fellow--and when the war unfolded anyway, people were disappointed then depressed (myself among them)---and we went home.
and we stayed home.
they are still at home.
we are all still sitting at home.

all this within a system that allows for the exercize of political freedom one day every 2 years. after that pesky, mediated freedom business is out of the way, we the people are stuck with whatever the more powerfully organized and well-funded political machine manages to put into place. and there is no way to get rid of the results--no mechanism for a vote of no confidence, no way to bring down an administration no matter how incompetent of disengenuous they may be. the result of our charade of political freedom is two year blocks of impunity.

better still, we self-evidently are living through an extended transitional phase in the social and political organization of capitalism. this adds even more fine treats to the pile: a radically polarized class society in which there is no functional discourse of class conflict--this polarization effects education, it squanders lives and potentials---it is expressed in the development of a prison-industrial complex for management of the poor, increased violence, increased repression---it is predicated on economic injustice and even manages to generate a certain level of flinstone contempt for the notions of economic and social justice.
the reorganization of capitalism that has been unfolding over the past 20 years has created fundamental problems for the american system of social reproduction that have not been addressed and that cannot be addressed within the present ideological climate of nationalist fantasy and denial.

so it feels sometimes like we are crash test dummies in a small car heading at high speed toward a very big wall.

so people appear to be at the least worried and at the worse afraid.
so we watch tv

conservative ideology traffics in fear, directing it toward the illusion of manly men doing manly things as if the idiocy behind this was not only other than a problem, but a source of reassurance.
we watch this on tv.

and there is no coherent oppositional politics, fantasies of the right notwithstanding.
we learn this on television.

so we express our discontent in spaces that are available like this.
but we all know that what we say in spaces like this is mostly therapeutic.
a little playground in which we all get to try out rationalizations that enable us to get out of bed in the morning.
a pseudo-public sphere of pseudo-public debate.

within the exercize in sublimation that participation in such pseudo-public debates in a pseudo-public sphere, the bigger picture repeats itself.
the confusion comes in the assumption that these repetitions are meaningful.
they are meaningful in a therapeutic sense, but not in a political sense.

this brings me back to this thread:

i am not surprised or shocked or even particularly disturbed by how this has gone.
i saw nothing surprising in ustwo's selective reading strategies--i would even applaud his frankness--but nothing in it was surprising, was it?

thing is that while ustwo's refusal to take seriously positions directed against his extreme right politics resembles aspects of the bigger picture, it is not that bigger picture.
and freezing him out of the board does not change that bigger picture.
he is just a guy.
a person like the rest of us who has to work out ways to manage, to rationalise what is happening around him, who has to work out systems of thinking that enable him to get out of bed in the morning and act as though his life is meaningful-----just as the rest of us are.

this is not the bigger picture.
the bigger picture is overwhelming.
if you add up the elements of it and really think about what they mean, it can be paralyzing.
powerlessness is not good.
denial is a coping mechanism.
dissent is a coping mechanism.
between them are siginificant differences in types of information processed, logic and the willingness to spell out that logic.
but in a pseudo-public sphere, the line between political argument and coping mechanism is thin indeed.

let's try to remember that.

i would prefer better debates.
i would also prefer to operate without illusions.

back to the question of torture on the way out: the united states has practiced torture as a matter of routine policy for at least 50 years. the united states has trained generations of torturers at lovely institutions like the school of the americas. the united states has sanctioned torture in other places: the united states endorsed pinochet, the united states endorsed the argentine military regime, the united states supported the shah of iran--on and on and on.

have you seen "dogville"?
von trier is right.

10-02-2006, 07:16 AM	#108 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	my my this thread certainly tanked, didn't it? it's a shame because this is an important topic. i suppose that is among the points of a troll, really--to reduce questions political to lint personal, distract, divert, etc. i have thought quite a bit about this one over the weekend. i think there are several underlying reason why this thread generated such heat--the official sanctioning of torture, the rewriting of the geneva conventions, the granting of immunity from prosecution for war crimes of a cadre that would have you think that americans cannot commit war crimes a priori, the legitmation of military kangaroo courts, the validation of the bushleague legal black hole, the expansion of the notion of enemy to potentially include american citizens, the suspension of habeas corpus...the fact that congress bent over and approved this...the stacking of the courts with far right activists appointed in the name of thwarting "activism"---problems with the last two presidential elections that remain unresolved.... years of fiasco international and domestic... it seems that public protest has gone away: it is almost like the masses of people who turned out in opposition to the iraq debacle around the coutry actually believed the administration would take note of them, would listen, as if they had been chumped by the illusion that cowboy george is a decent fellow--and when the war unfolded anyway, people were disappointed then depressed (myself among them)---and we went home. and we stayed home. they are still at home. we are all still sitting at home. all this within a system that allows for the exercize of political freedom one day every 2 years. after that pesky, mediated freedom business is out of the way, we the people are stuck with whatever the more powerfully organized and well-funded political machine manages to put into place. and there is no way to get rid of the results--no mechanism for a vote of no confidence, no way to bring down an administration no matter how incompetent of disengenuous they may be. the result of our charade of political freedom is two year blocks of impunity. better still, we self-evidently are living through an extended transitional phase in the social and political organization of capitalism. this adds even more fine treats to the pile: a radically polarized class society in which there is no functional discourse of class conflict--this polarization effects education, it squanders lives and potentials---it is expressed in the development of a prison-industrial complex for management of the poor, increased violence, increased repression---it is predicated on economic injustice and even manages to generate a certain level of flinstone contempt for the notions of economic and social justice. the reorganization of capitalism that has been unfolding over the past 20 years has created fundamental problems for the american system of social reproduction that have not been addressed and that cannot be addressed within the present ideological climate of nationalist fantasy and denial. so it feels sometimes like we are crash test dummies in a small car heading at high speed toward a very big wall. so people appear to be at the least worried and at the worse afraid. so we watch tv conservative ideology traffics in fear, directing it toward the illusion of manly men doing manly things as if the idiocy behind this was not only other than a problem, but a source of reassurance. we watch this on tv. and there is no coherent oppositional politics, fantasies of the right notwithstanding. we learn this on television. so we express our discontent in spaces that are available like this. but we all know that what we say in spaces like this is mostly therapeutic. a little playground in which we all get to try out rationalizations that enable us to get out of bed in the morning. a pseudo-public sphere of pseudo-public debate. within the exercize in sublimation that participation in such pseudo-public debates in a pseudo-public sphere, the bigger picture repeats itself. the confusion comes in the assumption that these repetitions are meaningful. they are meaningful in a therapeutic sense, but not in a political sense. this brings me back to this thread: i am not surprised or shocked or even particularly disturbed by how this has gone. i saw nothing surprising in ustwo's selective reading strategies--i would even applaud his frankness--but nothing in it was surprising, was it? thing is that while ustwo's refusal to take seriously positions directed against his extreme right politics resembles aspects of the bigger picture, it is not that bigger picture. and freezing him out of the board does not change that bigger picture. he is just a guy. a person like the rest of us who has to work out ways to manage, to rationalise what is happening around him, who has to work out systems of thinking that enable him to get out of bed in the morning and act as though his life is meaningful-----just as the rest of us are. this is not the bigger picture. the bigger picture is overwhelming. if you add up the elements of it and really think about what they mean, it can be paralyzing. powerlessness is not good. denial is a coping mechanism. dissent is a coping mechanism. between them are siginificant differences in types of information processed, logic and the willingness to spell out that logic. but in a pseudo-public sphere, the line between political argument and coping mechanism is thin indeed. let's try to remember that. i would prefer better debates. i would also prefer to operate without illusions. back to the question of torture on the way out: the united states has practiced torture as a matter of routine policy for at least 50 years. the united states has trained generations of torturers at lovely institutions like the school of the americas. the united states has sanctioned torture in other places: the united states endorsed pinochet, the united states endorsed the argentine military regime, the united states supported the shah of iran--on and on and on. have you seen "dogville"? von trier is right. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite