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Willravel · 09-21-2006, 05:49 AM

Fatsom is kinda right. We've been dancing around this the whole time, but he's right. Example? The 1800F temperature is based on the maximum temperatures possible for a fire fueled by jet fuel, desks, chairs, paper, drapes, etc. It almost certianally wasn't that hot. Eyewhitness reports talk about how the fire was dying down as much as 20 minutes before the collapse. Cheif Palmer, on the 78th floor of the South tower (the one that fell fastest, and yet most of the fuel spilled out and exploded outside the building), [I]from the crash zone[/URL], said there were "two isolated pockets of fire" when he called for backup and requested 2 hoses to put them out. Reports like this one come from firefighters that were inside the building putting the fires out, and I'd imagine firefighters know a thing or two about the behavior of fire. Remember, jet fuel burns between 800F and 1500F, which suggests that it's more than posible that they were burning at 800F. They could have been burning at 400F, considering that most of the jet fuel burned off in the initial explosion. Not even Dilbert could make the buiding fall with 800F fires. Even with a 1500F fire, it's a real stretch explaining the collapse of the building. It has to assume most of the fire protection was stripped fom the steel. Some of the fire protection was stripped by the crash itself, of course, but it's not like all the fire protection from the whole floor was lost across several floors. You'd need to have ideal circumstances for a 1500F fire that was consistanly hot to heat the uncovered steel to a temperature where it started to lose any of it's tensile strength. I'll tell you what, let's split the difference and say that the fire burned at 1150F. Add to that the heat from the fires on the desks, chairs, paper, drapes, etc. (even though the temperature of a fire is not a cumulative number based on the emperatures of the individual fires), and we'll say about 1350F. And that 1350F temperature did not last a full hour. It started cold, built up to hot, then dropped off and went down again. Those are hardly the ideal situations that NISA, FEMA, Dilbert, and PopMech suggest. Oh, and if you want proof that PopMech isn't reliable, check out what they are saying about 9/11 cough, a condition that effects thousands of rescue workers and brave civilians who dug through the rubble to find survivors. Yikes. Talk about disrespecting the heros of 9/11. I can't belive that Popular Mechanics can't figure out that pulverized cement in the air is toxic. 70% of 9/11 recovery workers suffer from severe lung problems.

09-21-2006, 05:49 AM	#596 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Fatsom is kinda right. We've been dancing around this the whole time, but he's right. Example? The 1800F temperature is based on the maximum temperatures possible for a fire fueled by jet fuel, desks, chairs, paper, drapes, etc. It almost certianally wasn't that hot. Eyewhitness reports talk about how the fire was dying down as much as 20 minutes before the collapse. Cheif Palmer, on the 78th floor of the South tower (the one that fell fastest, and yet most of the fuel spilled out and exploded outside the building), [I]from the crash zone[/URL], said there were "two isolated pockets of fire" when he called for backup and requested 2 hoses to put them out. Reports like this one come from firefighters that were inside the building putting the fires out, and I'd imagine firefighters know a thing or two about the behavior of fire. Remember, jet fuel burns between 800F and 1500F, which suggests that it's more than posible that they were burning at 800F. They could have been burning at 400F, considering that most of the jet fuel burned off in the initial explosion. Not even Dilbert could make the buiding fall with 800F fires. Even with a 1500F fire, it's a real stretch explaining the collapse of the building. It has to assume most of the fire protection was stripped fom the steel. Some of the fire protection was stripped by the crash itself, of course, but it's not like all the fire protection from the whole floor was lost across several floors. You'd need to have ideal circumstances for a 1500F fire that was consistanly hot to heat the uncovered steel to a temperature where it started to lose any of it's tensile strength. I'll tell you what, let's split the difference and say that the fire burned at 1150F. Add to that the heat from the fires on the desks, chairs, paper, drapes, etc. (even though the temperature of a fire is not a cumulative number based on the emperatures of the individual fires), and we'll say about 1350F. And that 1350F temperature did not last a full hour. It started cold, built up to hot, then dropped off and went down again. Those are hardly the ideal situations that NISA, FEMA, Dilbert, and PopMech suggest. Oh, and if you want proof that PopMech isn't reliable, check out what they are saying about 9/11 cough, a condition that effects thousands of rescue workers and brave civilians who dug through the rubble to find survivors. Yikes. Talk about disrespecting the heros of 9/11. I can't belive that Popular Mechanics can't figure out that pulverized cement in the air is toxic. 70% of 9/11 recovery workers suffer from severe lung problems.