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Originally Posted by ratbastid
I don't think the Clinton administration is blameless. Not at all. Now, they didn't manipulate post-attack senitiment to launch a massively ill-conceived campaign against a country that had nothing to do with the attack, in the name of national security. Clinton isn't giving speeches right now praising himself for keeping America safe. Al Gore isn't talking about the "hellofa job" he did on national security.
I'm not really talking about blame. I'm not particularly interested in blame. I'm VERY interested in exposing lies and political manipulation, especially when the effect of those manipulations is still out in the future and I can still do something about it. These guys are making a pre-election attempt to parlay their failure into success, and I'm looking to call them out on it.
I don't blame Bush and company for 9/11. That attack might very well have been inevitable--it probably would have happened no matter who the president was. Since that time, though, he's done almost nothing I can approve of, including all the current bluster about homeland security. (I know, you might have examples of things he's done right... that's why I said "almost nothing". Ousting the Taliban was the right move. Keeping them ousted has been an utter failure, but that's another thread.)
As far as I can tell, all that our efforts domestically and overseas have done is to engender a new generation of terrorists, kill thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of non-Americans, and cause two civil wars. We're in for decades of insecurity as a result of those things. And I'm unwilling to ignore the irony that it was all done in the name of security.
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I like the fact that you are not a blame-shifting a**hole who simply hates Bush becaue he is a republican. You give credit where credit is due and back it up by, what seems to be, fact. Awesome for you. Now we have to really look at the situation.
1. Instead of simply complaining, offer up idea that can work. I mean they may not listen to us ( IE Bush got re-elected), but you will not then just simply be complaining. Your Ideas mean very little to the government, but you may get the respect within the TFP area.
2. Now you said something about reelecting. Think about this. What would a democrat, in your opinion, Done differantly. I mean what would you have done?
3. Now for my opinion:
There was nothing we could have done to prevent 9/11 from happeneing. Just could not be done. What happened afterwards also could not have been prevented. think about it;
How upset would you have been has Bush not done a single thing. He went to the UN and SAID something needs to be done. Then the UN does what it does best... NOTHING. Then Bush makes a plea to the Terrorist to come and make an attemt to deal with their anger twords America. Of course they would say NO! and then attempt to blow some more shit up. ITs how they work. Thats why they call it terrorism and not happy-funism. Now I am glad that somebody did something. Now he may have gone too far and created an Iraqi civil war, but there has always been a civil war there just below the surface. We are just caught in the middle of it now.
I am all for just letting them kill themselves, but there has to come a point when everything settles down and they realize that they can live in relative peace. That time may never come for Iraq. At least I highly doubt it.
Should we STILL be in Iraq I don't think so. I say let them all kill themselves and then when they ask why we didn't help we look them in the face and then kick them square in the balls and say becuase you didn't want us too. This still won't make them happy. Iraq is a catch 22. We suck if we leave and we suck if we stay.
Now as far as changes go for a post 9/11 world. Yes, there have been more then our fair share of changes. I mean Holy Shit it now takes forever in Line at airports, forget about clipping your nose hairs on the planes and my need to carry a gallon of gas on board no longer matter, because of national security. That seems to be the universal answer for anything that the government can't answer. umm..... The answer to your question is National Security. WOrks everytime.
The fact that there have been no attecks since then can be interpreted a few ways. Who knows why we really have not been attacked. maybe they take a lot of planning. maybe we have prevented a few maybe they just don't wanna attack at the moment. who knows. I know our Government has no idea, but it is a good selling point to average Joe Voter.
Tighter security is generally a good thing until it inconvienances you. As American we need to realize that things have changed since 9/11 and they have changed a few times, in a few differant ways. We as Americans are not particularly proud of our country and even less are willing to stand up for it. you may support the politics, but you are still an American, and I think a lot of people have forgotten about that. Americans are the least loyal of all citizens. I mean look at people who come from other countries to live here and how proud they are of where the came from, even though they sure as hell wouldn't go back. i think I may be babbling now so I will leave it at that.