Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Ethanol Fuel (E85)

Deltona Couple · 09-01-2006, 04:33 AM

I may be wrong here, but it seems that everyone is not looking at the broad scheme of things here. REmember our history? There was a time where everyone FREAKED that we would be driving in cars with UNLEADED GAS? OMG my car wont run good at ALL if I have unleaded gas! (Leaded gas was used in older cars with solid steel valves and heads to protect the valve and valve seats btw) Now I bet you wouldn't find many people who even knew we had leaded gas several years back. Our world is changing and evolving, and we need to evolve with it. Maybe E85 isn't the answer to EVERY energy problem, but who knows, in several years when you have more enigineers working on designing cars/trucks for ethanol, they might stumble on something that DOES make it more efficient. Remember the days when people thought that there was no way automobiles would EVER relace the horse because they were inefficient and unreliable? The only way to find solutions for problems is to TRY something. Maybe It wont work, but maybe it will. I work at a dealership, and have been learning about ethanol based fuels, and we are working on ways to make the vehicles more efficient, but it takes TIME and WORK. This country is too full of people who expect INSTANT gratification. Sit back and relax, go with the flow people...Buy one tank of E85, then on the next fill up go back to regular, until things get more efficient. Production costs may be slightly higher, but when are they NOT for a new product? For those that are old enough, remember that unleaded gasoline cost more than leaded gas, because of the increase in production costs? But we still converted, because EVENTUALLY the automakers were able to integrate the vehicles. It wasn't an INSTANT solution, it takes time.

I personally support it (E85), because history in economics shows that competition drives prices down. Think about it, if only 20% of the US converted to ethanol, the big oil companies will se a substantial loss in the pocket for them. In order to try to keep atleast SOME of their customers, they will need to lower their prices to compensate....Basic economy, supply goes up, prices go down, and competition breeds lower prices. It's not a guess, its economic historic fact.

Also, if you look at some of the news, to help support Ethanol, the US government has allowed people to actually manufacture and use the old fashioned STILL! What do you think they do at the ethanol plants? It's pure grain alcohol! MOONSHINE! (of course in order to operate a still you have to sign an agreement with the government promising to put in an additive that poisons the mixture so you can't drink it, but who says you cant pull out a quart or two BEFORE for um...Medicinal purposes!) As far as the cost? I have researched this recently when I heard about it. The average still can be made for about $250, and production costs to manufacture? Is in the neighborhood of a 60 to 90 cents per gallon, depending on where you purchase your corn/grain from, and use propane for the processing. Now if you were to calculate out things, say 85 gallons of Ethanol to 15 gallons of gasoline to make your own mixture (Yes it can be done safely) then you will have 100 gallons of E85 Ethanol. If you paid $3.00 for the gasoline, and max cost of $.90 for the Ethanol, then 100 gallons cost you $121.50, for an average cost of $1.22 per gallon. Thats enough to make me switch!

Now the above paragraph isn't perfect, but it gives you an idea of how it CAN be done by an enterprising person. Imagine if you had your own farm, what you could make? Personally I think that if you had your own farm in Montana and a large still, you could have your own gas station and make some good money!

Again this isn't perfect, and I am not saying it is for EVERYONE, but remember how things work in the world, hell half of the discoveries in the WORLD were made by accident when trying to create something else. Perfect example? WD-40, everyone knows what it is, but did you know that it was a mistake? WD-40 stands for "water displacement sample 40". It was originally designed to help remove water from places where you didn't want it. But look at what it is used for now? And the guy who made it is RICH!...lol

09-01-2006, 04:33 AM	#29 (permalink)
Deltona Couple Addict Location: Spring, Texas	I may be wrong here, but it seems that everyone is not looking at the broad scheme of things here. REmember our history? There was a time where everyone FREAKED that we would be driving in cars with UNLEADED GAS? OMG my car wont run good at ALL if I have unleaded gas! (Leaded gas was used in older cars with solid steel valves and heads to protect the valve and valve seats btw) Now I bet you wouldn't find many people who even knew we had leaded gas several years back. Our world is changing and evolving, and we need to evolve with it. Maybe E85 isn't the answer to EVERY energy problem, but who knows, in several years when you have more enigineers working on designing cars/trucks for ethanol, they might stumble on something that DOES make it more efficient. Remember the days when people thought that there was no way automobiles would EVER relace the horse because they were inefficient and unreliable? The only way to find solutions for problems is to TRY something. Maybe It wont work, but maybe it will. I work at a dealership, and have been learning about ethanol based fuels, and we are working on ways to make the vehicles more efficient, but it takes TIME and WORK. This country is too full of people who expect INSTANT gratification. Sit back and relax, go with the flow people...Buy one tank of E85, then on the next fill up go back to regular, until things get more efficient. Production costs may be slightly higher, but when are they NOT for a new product? For those that are old enough, remember that unleaded gasoline cost more than leaded gas, because of the increase in production costs? But we still converted, because EVENTUALLY the automakers were able to integrate the vehicles. It wasn't an INSTANT solution, it takes time. I personally support it (E85), because history in economics shows that competition drives prices down. Think about it, if only 20% of the US converted to ethanol, the big oil companies will se a substantial loss in the pocket for them. In order to try to keep atleast SOME of their customers, they will need to lower their prices to compensate....Basic economy, supply goes up, prices go down, and competition breeds lower prices. It's not a guess, its economic historic fact. Also, if you look at some of the news, to help support Ethanol, the US government has allowed people to actually manufacture and use the old fashioned STILL! What do you think they do at the ethanol plants? It's pure grain alcohol! MOONSHINE! (of course in order to operate a still you have to sign an agreement with the government promising to put in an additive that poisons the mixture so you can't drink it, but who says you cant pull out a quart or two BEFORE for um...Medicinal purposes!) As far as the cost? I have researched this recently when I heard about it. The average still can be made for about $250, and production costs to manufacture? Is in the neighborhood of a 60 to 90 cents per gallon, depending on where you purchase your corn/grain from, and use propane for the processing. Now if you were to calculate out things, say 85 gallons of Ethanol to 15 gallons of gasoline to make your own mixture (Yes it can be done safely) then you will have 100 gallons of E85 Ethanol. If you paid $3.00 for the gasoline, and max cost of $.90 for the Ethanol, then 100 gallons cost you $121.50, for an average cost of $1.22 per gallon. Thats enough to make me switch! Now the above paragraph isn't perfect, but it gives you an idea of how it CAN be done by an enterprising person. Imagine if you had your own farm, what you could make? Personally I think that if you had your own farm in Montana and a large still, you could have your own gas station and make some good money! Again this isn't perfect, and I am not saying it is for EVERYONE, but remember how things work in the world, hell half of the discoveries in the WORLD were made by accident when trying to create something else. Perfect example? WD-40, everyone knows what it is, but did you know that it was a mistake? WD-40 stands for "water displacement sample 40". It was originally designed to help remove water from places where you didn't want it. But look at what it is used for now? And the guy who made it is RICH!...lol __________________ "It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison