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roachboy · 08-13-2006, 03:17 PM

warf rat--how exactly is your pseudo-history of the israel-palestinian-regional conflict(s) relevant to the question of whether you do or do not think the cease fire agreement will either be implement or will hold?

and how is your "colonialism is good--it gives the natives jobs" line helpful? all it really shows is that you havent looked into conditions in gaza or in the west bank--you seem to have no idea what you are defending. the only possible defense of the occupation is predicated on refusing to look at the facts of the matter and on refusing to consider the consequences of those facts.

consider for a minute the kind of political and social conditions that would have to obtain for anyone to consider strapping a bomb to themselves and blowing themselves up. think about it. i know that it is easier to indulge in some facile racism (o those muslims are crazy blah blah blah) rather than think, but try for a minute to put yourself in such a position and imagine what your world would have to be like for you to make a decision like that. of course to do that, you have to grant that palestinians are human beings like yourself, every bit as rational as yourself. judging from the tone of your posts above, i am not sure whether you can carry out such a thought experiment--but it is worth doing nonetheless.

what i posted earlier concerning hezbollah is empirically the case: since the conventions of gd appear to be that one simply announces one's opinion and doesn't burden other members with information that they either have to read or feel bad about not reading (and then blame you for having posted it), i'll refer you to the lengthy politics threads on this topic which have not been limited by the same conventions. or do a simple search.

none of this has anything to do with the question of whether the ceasefire agreed upon within the unsc will be implemented and whether it will hold if it is.

what it does have to do with is conflicting understandings of the underlying causes of conflict since 1967. in this, i see the policies of the israeli right as primarily responsible. this is not to say israel as a whole--that would be absurd--it is only in the united states that the politics of the israeli right are conflated with that of israel as a whole. and even that does not hold up under even the slightest scrutiny--read he'aetz, even for a couple days, and the idea that the israeli right IS israeli opinion will melt away.

opposing the policies of the israeli right has NOTHING TO DO with one's general position relative to israel. for myself, i take israel as given and peaceful co-existence desirable and the policies of the israeli right as the primary obstacle to that peaceful co-existence. by these policies, i refer to the continued occupation of the west bank and gaza, the settlement programs--the entire idea of the "greater israel".

08-13-2006, 03:17 PM	#26 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	warf rat--how exactly is your pseudo-history of the israel-palestinian-regional conflict(s) relevant to the question of whether you do or do not think the cease fire agreement will either be implement or will hold? and how is your "colonialism is good--it gives the natives jobs" line helpful? all it really shows is that you havent looked into conditions in gaza or in the west bank--you seem to have no idea what you are defending. the only possible defense of the occupation is predicated on refusing to look at the facts of the matter and on refusing to consider the consequences of those facts. consider for a minute the kind of political and social conditions that would have to obtain for anyone to consider strapping a bomb to themselves and blowing themselves up. think about it. i know that it is easier to indulge in some facile racism (o those muslims are crazy blah blah blah) rather than think, but try for a minute to put yourself in such a position and imagine what your world would have to be like for you to make a decision like that. of course to do that, you have to grant that palestinians are human beings like yourself, every bit as rational as yourself. judging from the tone of your posts above, i am not sure whether you can carry out such a thought experiment--but it is worth doing nonetheless. what i posted earlier concerning hezbollah is empirically the case: since the conventions of gd appear to be that one simply announces one's opinion and doesn't burden other members with information that they either have to read or feel bad about not reading (and then blame you for having posted it), i'll refer you to the lengthy politics threads on this topic which have not been limited by the same conventions. or do a simple search. none of this has anything to do with the question of whether the ceasefire agreed upon within the unsc will be implemented and whether it will hold if it is. what it does have to do with is conflicting understandings of the underlying causes of conflict since 1967. in this, i see the policies of the israeli right as primarily responsible. this is not to say israel as a whole--that would be absurd--it is only in the united states that the politics of the israeli right are conflated with that of israel as a whole. and even that does not hold up under even the slightest scrutiny--read he'aetz, even for a couple days, and the idea that the israeli right IS israeli opinion will melt away. opposing the policies of the israeli right has NOTHING TO DO with one's general position relative to israel. for myself, i take israel as given and peaceful co-existence desirable and the policies of the israeli right as the primary obstacle to that peaceful co-existence. by these policies, i refer to the continued occupation of the west bank and gaza, the settlement programs--the entire idea of the "greater israel". __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 08-13-2006 at 03:21 PM..