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Banned
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Originally Posted by stevo
as opposed to surfing the web for "truth"  you tell those mindless drones what is up. |
stevo, the alternative, is this....
(Note how Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich "swiftboats" Pat Tillman and his family....because "christians" wouldn't ask so many questions. The military awards/promotion ceremony that I attended recently, began with a prayer that refered to "our father", and closed with a prayer that described my stepson and his comrades as "god's soldiers".)
I live in a country where we are not told the true reasons for going to war, how the president and his administration handled, influenced, or reacted to pre-invasion Iraq intelligence, despite 3 investigations, in a country with one party rule and a "stacked" SCOTUS, a country where the military lies about the circumstances of a "celebrity soldier's" death, for purposes of political PR, complete with a "staged" and false....eulogy at the soldiers memorial service, and then posthumously awards him the nation's second highest medal for "valor", on the "reco" of a Colonel who knew that the valor "story" was false;
a Colonel who subsequently smears the dead soldier's family because they aren't religious enough to swallow the lying bullshit that he and the rest of the military and civilian command spewed to keep them from asking questions about the circumstances of their son's death.
Is that how you want me to be, stevo? Should I strap on "my god", and dumb the fuck down? Should I "glad hand" my step-son, wave the flag, and follow the POTUS, over a cliff? I practice the alternative.....the polar opposite to that "strategy", stevo. If they lied about their "poster boy", Tillman, what else are they lying about? Should I simply chalk it up to a "one time" aberration, stevo.....and blindly trust everything that they tell us, going forward? Is that your "game plan", stevo?
The inspector general's "report" on the death of Pat Tillman, should be released next month....only 29 months after he was killed in April, 2004.
Quote:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...e=tillmanpart1
Part One: Pat Tillman's Uncertain Death
.....According to the Army officer who directed the first official inquiry, the Army might have more of a clue about the shooter's identity than it has let on. Asked whether ballistics work was done to identify who fired the fatal shots, Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich told ESPN.com, "I think, yeah, they did. And I think they know [who fired]. But I never found out."
Mansfield and other Rangers who attended the post-incident meeting said both in interviews with ESPN.com and in documents from the Army investigations they were advised by debriefers that night that the unit as a whole bore the responsibility for Tillman's death and they should avoid placing blame on any one person.
<b>In his interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich also said he was not driven to identify Tillman's killer. </b>
"You know what? I don't think it really matters," Kauzlarich said. "And the reason I say that you got to look at the overall situation here that these guys were fighting in. And somebody hit him. So would you hold that guy [who] hit him responsible for hitting him, when everybody was shooting in that direction, given the situation? We'll see how the [Defense Department Inspector General's] investigation comes out. But I had no issue on not finding a specific person responsible for doing it."
Kauzlarich said he is confident the current probe will not result in criminal charges against the shooter or shooters. He said investigators would not still be examining the incident at all if it were not for Tillman's NFL celebrity he walked away from a multimillion-dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals when he enlisted and the pressure brought to bear by Tillman's family on a number of Washington politicos.
"His parents continue to ask for it to be looked at," Kauzlarich said. "And that is really their prerogative. And if they have the right backing, the right powerful people in our government to continue to let it happen, then that is the case.
"But there [have] been numerous unfortunate cases of fratricide, and the parents have basically said, 'OK, it was an unfortunate accident.' And they let it go. So this is <b>I don't know, these people have a hard time letting it go. It may be because of their religious beliefs."</b>
In a transcript of his interview with Brig. Gen. Gary Jones during a November 2004 investigation, Kauzlarich said he'd learned Kevin Tillman, Pat's brother and fellow Army Ranger who was a part of the battle the night Pat Tillman died, objected to the presence of a chaplain and the saying of prayers during a repatriation ceremony in Germany before his brother's body was returned to the United States.
Kauzlarich, now a battalion commanding officer at Fort Riley in Kansas, further suggested <b>the Tillman family's unhappiness with the findings of past investigations might be because of the absence of a Christian faith in their lives.
In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."</b>
Asked by ESPN.com whether the Tillmans' religious beliefs are a factor in the ongoing investigation, Kauzlarich said, "I think so. <b>There is not a whole lot of trust in the system or faith in the system [by the Tillmans]. So that is my personal opinion, knowing what I know."</b>
Asked what might finally placate the family, Kauzlarich said, "You know what? I don't think anything will make them happy, quite honestly. I don't know. Maybe they want to see somebody's head on a platter. But will that really make them happy? No, because they can't bring their son back."
<b>Kauzlarich, now 40, was the Ranger regiment executive officer in Afghanistan, who played a role in writing the recommendation for Tillman's posthumous Silver Star. And finally, with his fingerprints already all over many of the hot-button issues, including the question of who ordered the platoon to be split as it dragged a disabled Humvee through the mountains, Kauzlarich conducted the first official Army investigation into Tillman's death.</b>
That investigation is among the inquiries that didn't satisfy the Tillman family.
"Well, this guy makes disparaging remarks about the fact that we're not Christians, and the reason that we can't put Pat to rest is because we're not Christians," Mary Tillman, Pat's mother, said in an interview with ESPN.com. Mary Tillman casts the family as spiritual, though she said it does not believe in many of the fundamental aspects of organized religion.
"Oh, it has nothing to do with the fact that this whole thing is shady," she said sarcastically, "But it is because we are not Christians."
After a pause, her voice full with emotion, she added, "Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew. I mean, he was just a good guy. He didn't lie. He was very honest. He was very generous. He was very humble. I mean, he had an ego, but it was a healthy ego. It is like, everything those [people] are, he wasn't.",,,,,,,,,
........Tillman's Silver Star suggests the possibility of a similar spin. According to military records, 45 Silver Stars for gallantry have been awarded to soldiers for their heroism during the war in Afghanistan. An Army official told ESPN.com that Tillman's is the only one of those 45 that involved friendly fire. Although involved in the writing of Tillman's Silver Star application, Kauzlarich said the medals are "typically not" awarded in such cases.
"I mean, had the story come out that he had been killed by his own guys, then it probably would have been looked at differently," Kauzlarich said.
Army documents and statements given by witnesses during the Army's investigations indicate top officials already suspected fratricide when Tillman's Silver Star application was crafted. According to the transcript of his statement, Tillman's company commander, Capt. William Saunders acknowledged providing the information needed for Tillman's Silver Star recommendation, stating that before submission, "We became aware that his death was a possible fratricide." During a separate interview with investigators, Saunders said he arriving at the scene of the battle early the following morning April 23, 2004 and being informed fratricide was suspected.
Though two other Rangers were wounded in the incident, no one else on the battlefield that day was awarded a Silver Star.
Congressional Hearings?
Four congressmen sent a bipartisan letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expressing concerns that the Army place a priority in getting to the truth regarding Pat Tillman's death. Letter
Partly for that reason, the Army could be in for an embarrassing PR hit when the Defense Department Inspector General's Office releases its findings after an almost yearlong review of the events surrounding Tillman's death. That could come perhaps as early as September the start of another NFL season. The IG's Office initiated its current inquiry after determining the three earlier military investigations, including the one by Kauzlarich, failed to fully address concerns and allegations raised by the Tillman family as well as by Washington politicians.
In a March 23, 2006, letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, a copy of which was obtained by ESPN.com, Reps. Michael Honda (D-Calif.), Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), Ike Skelton (D-Mo.) and Christopher Shays (R-Conn.) wrote: "The Army
should have a shared interest in determining whether Army officials covered up the true facts regarding Corporal Tillman's death." To that end, the lawmakers suggest congressional hearings ultimately might be convened to delve into the matter.
Both the White House and Rumsfeld's office declined comment for this story. Through spokesman Hollen J. Wheeler, the secretary of defense turned down the opportunity to address ESPN.com's questions about the Tillman situation e-mailed to his office..........
Quote:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...e=tillmanpart2
<i>"He made the call. He dismounted his troops, taking the fight to the enemy, uphill, to seize the tactical high ground from the enemy. This gave his brothers and the downed vehicle time to move off that target. He directly saved their lives with that move. Pat sacrificed himself so his brothers could live."</i>
Those are the words Steve White used to describe how Pat Tillman died.
Watch the pertinent excerpt of Navy SEAL Steve White's eulogy and hear his reaction to the truth.
White, a Navy SEAL, thought he was telling it like it was to the 2,000 or so people gathered in the California sun and to a television audience watching ESPN's live coverage of the memorial service for Tillman on May 3, 2004. White told them all how his war-hero buddy had been killed two weeks earlier in the mountains of Afghanistan during an epic fight against the Taliban.
White, it turns out, was telling it like it wasn't.
The truth, according to Army documents provided to ESPN.com by the Tillman family, was that not a single Ranger, including Tillman, had been hit by enemy fire in the battle that cost Tillman his life. There is no mention in the documents of even a single bullet hole discovered in any of the Ranger vehicles on the scene.
Nor did Tillman have the authority to "make the call" or bark any orders to dismount.
But don't blame White for the misinformation. He was just the messenger.
In an interview with ESPN.com, White said he was spoon-fed that story by an Army representative just an hour or so before he took the stage, draped with American flags that gently swayed in the afternoon breeze, for the memorial service. By then, the Army's top brass and most of the Rangers who had been in the battle already knew Tillman had been killed by his own men, but no one had told Tillman's family or an American public watching along with the crowd in the San Jose Municipal Rose Garden.
In the version given to White, fratricide was never mentioned.
The Navy SEAL said he is embarrassed by his words now. He frets about the additional pain his speech might have caused Tillman's family just two weeks after Pat's death. And he wonders whether he was set up to tell the phony story.
....White spoke to ESPN.com this spring about the friendship he forged with Kevin and Pat Tillman during their deployment in Iraq before the brothers were sent to Afghanistan. Kevin Tillman had requested that White, a 16-year Navy veteran, speak at the memorial service. And so White told the Rose Garden crowd and the television audience that Pat Tillman had been awarded a Purple Heart for being wounded in combat and that Tillman had been promoted posthumously from specialist to corporal.
Finally, his voice cracking with emotion, White painted the battlefield picture with brushstrokes that made Tillman's action so valorous as to be worthy of a Silver Star, one of the Army's most distinguished awards.
Among the Army officials gathered that afternoon to mourn and celebrate Pat Tillman, listening to the heroic story and offering condolences to the family, was Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger Jr. of the U.S. Army. Documents given to the Tillman family and obtained by ESPN.com show that by the time the memorial service began, Kensinger already had been told friendly fire was suspected in Tillman's death.
According to a transcript of Kensinger's interview in November 2004, during an Army investigation, he was asked whether he'd made a conscious decision to withhold that information from the Tillman family. He answered, "That was a memorial service. I didn't think it was my responsibility to go up to them and say, 'Hey, you know, this is a possible friendly fire.' "
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...e=tillmanpart3
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Last edited by host; 08-02-2006 at 11:11 AM..
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