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Originally Posted by Impetuous1
It's not the same thing because the older person (assuming they are no longer competent) was once a sentient being with the ability to decide what they want done to them medically through a living will. A fetus has not lived in the sense that they have never left the womb and have not communicated in a meaningful way. You would have been better off using an example of someone who was mentally retarded. Anyways, your observation is straying from the point of the debate.
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The debate was about male equality (legally, morally). Whether the child is sentient before birth (a.k.a. what abortion vs. anti-abortion ultimately boils down to) has bearing on the discussion. If the child isn't sentient, then the fetus, which might as well be a bank account, would simply belong to the mother, including all legal rights and responsibilities. That means abortion and such, but also no payments from daddy. If the child is sentient, then kiling the baby is murder, and the living child belongs to both parents.
As for the comparison between a fetus and an elderly person who has lost the ability to make responsible decisions....I really don't see a difference. You say that a lack of life experience makes one life more meaningful than the other. That's obviosuly not true. I'm 22...is a 35 year old more important than I am? Not unless you are an agist (bigot based on age). I know you're not an agist, so I can only assume that you meant something else.
Perhapse I would be better off using the mental retardation comparison, but it's been done to death. We all know what it boils down to....what is a soul, and how can you prove that one does or doesn't have one? That question is better left to scholars and philosophers, so I decide to err on the side of life. Yes, I said it. Err on the side of life. Think about it. Do you want to be wrong? If the child doesn't have a soul until being born and you make sure it isn't aborted, then you simply have one more person in the world. If the child who isn't born yet does have a soul, and you kill it, then that's obviously murder.
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Originally Posted by Impetuous1
My case again is that arguing this is futile as women are the bearers of children. Whether they want to be or not. It is their body and they can decide what they want to do to it. This is not inequal. This is nature. The biological purpose of sex is to conceive children. This debate could only come up in a western country as in most non-western countries women don't have the right to decide much for themselves. Abortion is not an option in many countries.
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If I have a baseball implanted in my chest, is that baseball my body? Of course not. Yes, a woman can do what she wants with her body, but a fetus is no more a part of a woman's body than a half digested hamburger. The child is half sperm and half egg. That means that the legal and moral responsibility will be with both the father and the mother. People act like mothers are the only parent. I will spend the rest of my life as my daughter's father. Yes, for 9 months, she was inside my wife, but does that negate my responsibility? Honestly? I don't think so.
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Originally Posted by Impetuous1
Dramatic example: say the woman has the kid. You never pay a dime. The mother never asks you for any. Roll forward 18 years later and the kid comes looking for you. They ask you why you never helped out when they were living in poverty with their mother. They tell you all the horrible trials they went through. You come to realize had you given some support they would have been better off. What kind of person are you, they ask. Their wearing your face and you can recognize them as one of your own. What do you do? Tell them that you think that it's unequal that women get to make the decisions regarding pregnancy so you didn't have to contribute towards any support?
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Forcing someone to do the right thing is dangerous. Give them the chance to do the right thing. If they make the wrong decision, then they are irresponsible at best, a horrible person in all honesty. Some of us do the right thing, you know.
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Originally Posted by Impetuous1
This argument is shallow and those in favor of it sound like children to me. Where's your honor and responsibility?
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My honor and responsibility is me waking up every day and devoting my life to my daughter's well being and happieness. I would do anything for her. I didn't even have to think twice when I took the crappy job that payed better vs. the fun job that didn't pay enough because I know that my small sacrafice means that we will always have food on the table.
I think the real question is where is the responsibility of the mother? Yes, we all know that there are bad fathers out there, but what about all these teenagers getting abortions? Where is their sense of responsibility? The whole "my body, my right" thing disolves pretty quickly when you consider that abortion is one big removal of consequences and responsibilities. You have sex, which we all know is intended to create children, and then when you get pregnant you get a "get out of the maternity ward-free card". What honor is there in killing something that you created for the mear reason that you shouldn't have created it in the first place?