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Before I begin, I would just like to say that I saw the unedited version of your post. You need to chill out. Seriously. It's just a debate.
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It's not, by a long shot. To you it is, but in the real world it's something which hurts real people.
This is exactly the problem. You have no clue what you're talking about or the real world affects of what you're saying.
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It's true. Whenever someone opposes gay marriage they're instantly labeled "Bigots" or "Homophobes", without regard to their actual opinions or stances. It's a rather simple case of ad-hominem. Attack the person's character, and discredit their argument.
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Hah! Knew you'd say Ad Hominem. But that's invalid, as Ad Hominem is only when you base your point entirely around a personal attack, not when you use a specific and accurate word to describe someone. If I would have replied to one of your points with "Shut Up You Idiot" that would be Ad Hominem.
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Insensitive? How so? The term is loaded-- It has a negative connotation and denotation-- And is usually used to attack some directly rather than their argument. Since when did everyone who opposes gay marriage become homophobic?
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I'm sorry, but I've stated several times as to how someone against gay marriage is homophobic. You've ignored it several times. I cannot continue any form of debate with you if you continue to be completely selective.
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I can only speak for myself, but I don't beat up someone for being gay, or make fun of them or exclaim that "Godhatesfags". There are always people who take things to the extreme.
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But these are the things that happen when you make homophobia an acceptable vice.
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No one is really defending their actions. Have you ever heard the saying "Don't paint everyone with the same paintbrush"? Merely opposing gay marriage is much, much different than taking an active role in hate towards gays.
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But it's STILL homophobia as it's still discriminating against a minority for no real reason. There has never been a valid argument against gay marriage. All of them fall flat on their asses and have some logical fallacy at their core.
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n your prior post you said that "People against gay marriage are homophobic not only because it's usually out of an irrational prejudice to homosexuality in some form, but because they believe in enforcing some form of discrimination against homosexuals." You insinuated that I was a "Homophobe" because I oppose gy marriage. Explain to me why it's all right for you to label others, yet you take offense when others label you?
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Why does your entire argument consist of ridiculous nitpicking?
If you oppose gay marriage, then yes, you are homophobic to a degree, as you believe in actively discriminating against and forcing your beliefs on an innocent minority. There is no real debate to this.
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Hate crime against any group of people is wrong. Of course, that's really irrelevant as it didn't directly deal with my previous post. Why is it acceptable for you to use "Homophobe" to characterize someone else, but incorect of them to use the term "Heterophobe" to characterize you?
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Because I'm not discriminating against Straight People, so it is in no way accurate. It doesn't seem you give a crap about anything I say though, you'll just make the same completely nonsensical statements and questions over and over again.
Are you purposely trying to frustrate me by refusing to listen, then call "Ad Hominem" when I just plain can't take it?
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Nowhere did I ever state that "Homophobia" never existed.
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Yes you did. You said it was a word that was nothing but a loaded term used to mischaracterize one side of the debate.
If you don't like being lumped in with Fred Phelps, then stop having such discriminative views, there's no real logic behind them anyway. Otherwise, put up with it.
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You asserted that everyone who opposes gay marriage are homophobes. That's simply untrue, and you have no logical reason for arguing as such except for baseless assumptions. I
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It's not untrue. You believe in actively discriminating against a minority that aren't damn well hurting anyone. This has to be the 9th time I've said this.
My assumptions aren't baseless. There is no logic or reason and certainly no facts to back up being against gay marriage. It is pure discrimination.
What are YOUR reasons for being against gay marriage, then, since you implied you were earlier?
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I have two very good lesbian friends, yet I oppose gay marriage. That debunks your entire theory about everyone opposing gay marriage being homophobes.
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No it doesn't. The "Gay friends" argument is an infamous sign of an utterly rubbish viewpoint. You still don't want them to marry. You're still actively discriminating against them. That does not change anything.
WHY do you oppose gay marriage?
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In a strange twist, gay hate crime against straights does happen, albeit rare.
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When? Examples. Gay "hate" crime against homophobic people like Fred Phelps, maybe. And quite frankly, they're asking for it.
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Our entire society is based off of forcing one's beliefs and ideals on others. Actually, all societies are. But meh... That's another topic for another day.
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No it's not. Laws are meant to be founded on STOPPING other people forcing certain other things on others. You have to moderate some things.
When nothing is hurting anyone, it should not be illegal, and it is in no way acceptable to force someone out of it.
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I'm actually quite liberal on 95% of issues :P
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But utterly and irredeemibly conservative on this on. I suspect that's a gross exagerration, regardless.
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Anyway, your entire theory is based on the premise that everyone who opposes gay marriage hates gays. Yes, some people who oppose gay marriage hate gays but, then again, not everyone who opposes gay marriage hate gays. I'm still waiting to know how I'm a bigot. Please... Don't say that I'm a bigot because I oppose gay marriage.
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You are a bigot. You refuse to accept your stance that certain people should be allowed marry despite the fact that apart from gender they are analogous to a straight couple in almost every way. Deal with it. Bigot or Homophobe in the modern usage doesn't mean that you have to HATE gays, but you most likely have some form of disrespect for them if you believe they shouldn't be allowed marry - either that, or sheer ignorance, or sheer arrogance.
[quoet]If we wanted to follow that line of logic, I guess I'd be a bigot for opposing incestral marriage or opposing bestiality (No, I'm not equating gay marriage to either of the two. I'm pointing out that simply because I oppose something, does not mean that I'm a bigot).[/quote]
That's not logic. In fact, it's the exact opposite - it's the Slippery Slope Fallacy.
Incestral Marriage and Beastiality are not the same as homosexuality by a long shot. Whether or not they hurt people is a different argument - though at least there, there are technicalities as they aren't directly analogous to straight relationships - one is with a family member, complicating legal issues, and one is with a non-consenting animal.
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I wasn't arguing. I was merely pointing out that simply because someone opposes gay marriage doesn't make them a bigot. And, as far as the homophobia-thing goes, I answered that somewhere near the beginning.
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Being against gay marriage is a purely a vice, one along the same lines of thinking as homophobia. Let's just call a spade a spade.
Unles of course, you can prove me wrong and wow me with your amazing reasons as to why gay marriage should never be. But I've seen it all before. We all have. And we no there's no defense for it, just good old enforcing traditional values on people, which is just plain disrespectful.